Let's discuss the role of women tonight. Make sure use tonight's video for discussion Make sure to Look at - Olive and choose one of the following - Scout - Cal - Your Choice (Open)
I believe the role of women has changed drastically throughout the years. During the 1900s, when suffrage movements were popping up across the country, women's role in society was in its true form. Years of neglect to women's rights led to the climax and the role before the movements were to be a housewife, and act almost as a "slave" to the family, providing them for their needs, such as cooking food and maintaining a clean household. Since then, the role has changed drastically. Women can freely vote, work, and even serve in the armed forces but is still seen as inferior to the man. Women are still paid and respected less. However, the female presence in the household is still necessary in raising a family. Taking suffrage movements to the maximum, Olive is a brave character that tries to run for president and create policies based on a "girl's dreams" of being in love, being a princess, and living in luxury. Every bill or act she tries to pass involves romance, such as finding a gal for every man. In a time where women could just be seen as voting, this cartoon can seen as very radical, but respectable.
I think that women are still less respected because due to our previous society, women were inferior which has gotten rid of most of it, but not all causing the idea in man that says we are superior and women are inferior.
I also feel that Scout can be compared to Olive. Olive tries to take on the high stress job of being president, a career reserved mainly for males. Likewise, Scout is the sore thumb of Maycomb, and tries to dress, act, and be a boy. However, no doubt that as Scout matures, she will become more ladylike. Olive's policies as president still reflect the childhood dream of every girl: to be a princess. Although Scout has none of these notions, she has some girlish qualities that will be developed as the book goes on.
I think that womeon are still less respected because even in today's reality, men are usually the ones who get high ranked jobs and many men become rich in business, etc. Also, people still remember how society was in the past and how women were thought of as "less" than men.
It is true that rights of women have changed but even today, we are seen inferior just because we aren't male. But the thought and idea of the man being better than the female still lingers over us sadly.
I agree with the fact that women today are still looked down upon. It is hard for people to change another's thoughts and prejudices so quickly so many people still see women as inferior to the men.
I think women are not respected as much as men today because men have always played major roles throughout history. Women have always been looked at as the ones who just cook and contribute to the next generation. However, I think today women are somewhat respected. Many women soldiers fight in wars and even run for president
I think women are still seen as inferior to men because of our traditions. Men have always been seen as superior and more important. Because our ancestors and others in history have been exposed to this concept of women being inferior, it is hard to forget it. Some people say that the first way you learn something is the only way you remember. Similarly, people always learned that men are superior, so it is never forgotten.
There is a point there Katy, but, it was not always so, in fact it wasn't until the onset of the Abrahamic religions and their idea of original sin, an idea made to better weed out previous religions that tradition changed. Before then, both males and females were most often traditionally looked upon as equals in the minds of society, they were not looked as the same thing, but equal nonetheless
Even though men have always been seen as playing the major roles in history, without women no one would be here today, and I mean this biologically and emotionally. Biologically because you know you need the gametes to produce kids and all, but I mean emotionally in a sense that women have always been the protectors of the family, and even the men. All over the worlds there have been SOOOOO MANNNYYY WARS, and some of them were so bad that men came back traumatized, and women were there to support them and help them in their everyday lives. Even in animals like birds, we see that if you even attempt to or the mother bird think you're going to hurt its baby birds or eggs, they will attack like crazy, showing my point that women are the protectors of the family.
Women are still considered inferior because they do things or work jobs that are considered inferior. These jobs are cleaning the house, cooking the food, or raising children. This can be proven because there are men who do these same things and they are also considered inferior. From a psychological stand point, the reason why women are paid less in the workplace is because they are expected to do more for less.
Over the last 100 years, the role of women has conspicuously. Before World War I and World War II, women used to be housewives. They would do things like wash the clothes, cook food, watch the kids, and clean the house. At that time period they were only educated to maybe 6th grade. However, during the turn of World War I and World War II, women were actually working. Some, if not most, would act as nurses during the war. They would watch over the wounded and also care for them. However, in todays society, women work and are also housewives. Some mothers are single and they do a job and watch over their child so that they get a proper education. In TKAM Calpurnia is like a nurse who is watching after the wounded. She is like a mother to Jem and Scout and making sure that they do not do anything silly or “dumb.” Jem and Scout are like the wounded soldiers because they are feeble in the sense that their mistake could end up getting them in trouble just like a wounded soldier. Olive is like the Elizabeth Cady Stanton of her time period. Just like Stanton, Olive is the first lady to want to get a voice in the government and also the first lady to run for president like Hillary Clinton.
This image shows the danger of allowing women to vote during the 1900's.
I think more is expected out of women today because of the equality the women have gained. Now, women can ask a guy out, work a steady job, and contribute a big chunk to a family's finances. Men and women are almost seen as equal. In mathematical terms, let m=man, and w=woman. If m=w, and "m" has the duties of taking care of the family, supporting the home, and other duties necessary to fulfill primary and secondary drives, then "w" also has these duties as well.
Well obviously today's society is expecting more out of women than the 19th and 20th century because, in the past, men thought that all women could do were house chores, caring for the baby, and stuff like that. So, of course, they would not be expected much out of since they are thought of as people who do only a few things.
I think more is expected from women today. I think this because today women have more freedom. Women didn't get the right to vote until 1920! Also, women today are involved in politics just like men and they are definitely considered as equals today. In other parts of the world, it may not be so, but in America we are all equal. Just like in the U.S constitution it says "We, the people of the United States" referring to BOTH men and women citizens.
I wouldn't say women are considered equals today in the U.S. because although they are treated way better than 100 years ago, in some fields women still earn less than men for the same amount of work. President Obama even addressed this in his speech yesterday, by saying women should get equal pay for equal work, so women are still not being treated 100% fairly.
Apologies for my cynical views, but honestly, women are not equal in today's world, they are about as equal as racial minorities are to whites. They are in fact only seen as equal if they act and do what men are "supposed to do." In other words, they are only equal if they sell out all that makes them women when they enter testosterone run fields like business and politics. I'm not saying that women should not be involved in these things, to the contrary, but I am saying that they should not have to become "men" in their views and character to be able to succeed.
I dont think women are becoming men i think that women just have the same goals as some guys and they try hard to accomplish them even if it means losing some of their womanhood. anyway i think woman have already accomplished a lot in todays society and in the future woman with achieve even more.
As depicted in the short film, women are supposedly prissy, nice, and neatfreaks about everything. This is so untrue! :( Scout, a girl, is more of a tomboy then a girl girl. She is who she is and shouldn't succumb to such a sterotype of females. True, the things Popeye say are somewhat true, without the presence of a woman, men and children wouldn't be able to survive, as women are the caretakers and nurturers of children. What's wrong with what Popeye is saying is that women should just be seen as lesser people and should just stay at home and not do anything that may "hurt" and "destroy" their so called reputation of being a girly girl. Scout, though a tomboy, is perfectly fine in breaking the standards of being feminine. Boty Olive and Scout emit a strong sense of independence and strength which is one similarity they have. Even today, women are seen as inferiors and lesser people to males which is totally unfair and sexist. My question is, "Why do males think of themselves higher than females?"
This is a picture showing the independence and strength of women. http://www.google.com/imgres?q=women%27s+rights&hl=en&biw=1366&bih=557&gbv=2&tbm=isch&tbnid=Xbri9kEEgeB-qM:&imgrefurl=http://www.dosomething.org/tipsandtools/terms-you-should-know-about-womens-rights&docid=kH2iKyb9FOgBQM&imgurl=http://www.dosomething.org/files/pictures/feminism_202b.jpg&w=267&h=350&ei=HJYgT_GJGrDSiAKEkpTSBw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=449&vpy=124&dur=827&hovh=257&hovw=196&tx=143&ty=121&sig=104304804916370223307&page=1&tbnh=158&tbnw=121&start=0&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0
Daphne, I think males think they are superior to females since males have long been considered the head of the family, and the backbone of the household. Men work to provide for the home, whether it is paying the bills, buying the food, or paying for tuition. Only recently have women gained this equality, which is why I feel society puts men above women.
Sorry Daphne but I disagree with one of your points with Scout. You see Scout is the girl that likes to follow people. She is not very independent and looks for what Jem says about the topic. If she says something, she will not follow up with it if Jem says "no." Additionally, I think that your image is very captivating. I highly agree with the picture because it shows that women can do as much work as men do.
I may have worded it wrong, but to me Scout is thinking for herself. She may be influenced by others around her, but aren't we all? We learn from others and we imitate each other sometimes without even realizing it. Though the idea of being girly is not new to Scout, she chooses to wear her jeans and act tough and stand up for herself.
This maybe because men think themselves superior to anything and everything after a certain age. In this case, it also applies to women. In addition, men think of superiority as who has the most strength. Women in the family tend to be less prominently powerful than men are in society.
Throughout history, people have always thought that men were better and more responsible than women. In real life and even in the movie, it is shown that women can not do much and if there was something that they could do, it was normally cleaning, house-labor, etc. At first, when Olive said that she wanted to be president, Popeye started cracking up due to the thought of having a woman as president. But as the the popeye movie and To Kill A mockingbird we see that Scout and Olive both have the same determination and motivation to be able to succeed in what only men are considered to do in both stories. I think in order to stop this womenly prejudice, men should give those women a chance in both stories and they would see the potential of women. My question is if Scout was more of a girl-like personality and not a tomboy, do you think that that would have severely changed the story of To Kill A Mockingbird? Give an example.
This cartoon shows the prejudice against women. It is an example of a stereotype against them. http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/rma/lowres/rman13085l.jpg
I think that is a good point. If Scout was more lady-like, To Kill a Mockingbird would be very different. For example, there would not be as much focus on women's rights and how they are seen. If Scout were lady-like, Aunt Alexandra may have never came to live with the Finch family.
I agree with the fact that scout and Olive are trying to do things that only men were considered able to do. Considering that Scout was always acting tomboyish and was told to do the opposite by many people, but she yielded to almost no one.
I agree that both Olive and Scout are people who stand up for themselves and want to be able to have the same rights as men. I think that both of them wanted to make an impact on the world and show that women have the same ability to accomplish things as men.
During WWI, women had to occupy factories and shops because men were off to war. They built tanks and munitions and helped supply the soldiers with food, clothing, and shoes. Finally, they seemed capable to the world, that they can do a man's job. However, when the war ended, the men came back(if they came back...) and the women left work in the factories and shops. Using this, I think that back then no matter what women did, they were looked at as less superior. Women have always been see that way because 'men were the first to walk the earth.'
I think Olive Oyl is the stereotypical girly girl. She wants silk worms to make fancy silk if she becomes president and even has a "Bachelor's Tax." However, I think the most important part of the video was when she dresses up as the Statue of Liberty. My interpretation is that the statue represents freedom of women and it reminded me of Scout. Scout is always a free spirit and I think she symbolizes the freedom from becoming the stereotypical girl.
This picture represents Scout because she is the 'outcast' from other ladies including Olive Oyl. The other women in the book are tied up together while Scout is free. http://freedominteractivedesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/freedom.jpg
My question: Do you think Olive and Scout are in some ways similar? Do you think these characters reflect today's society?
Hi Asha, I agree on your thoughts about Olive Oyl but i have to add that Olive was also taking the level too far. In the video, she was almost forcing the men to marry women in order to not pay taxes. I also think that she is also putting standards of women too high because she also states that the women should be the one in charge and the men would always follow their order. I agree on the fact that Olive was just trying to end the stereotype of women but I also think that she took it too far.
I agree with Rohun on the fact that they are quite different, but for a different reason. Olive uses her feminism to her advantage, and you can see by the counting "ladies" instead of sheep. Scout dislikes being a girl, and wouldn't ever use it like that. She wears overalls and never voluntarily wears dresses.
Scout and Olive are similar in the way that they want women to be more like men. Scout doesn't like being lady-like and chooses to be tomboy because she feels like men are given more rights. Olive wants to fight for women's rights by running for president and giving priorities to women, like having the women wear the pants.
The role of women in the past and even now is a minority compared to how men are looked upon as. In my belief, I think that women had the most important tasks at home but they were never really appreciated. It is a stereotypical situation for women to tend and take care or the house and children. For example, Calpurnia in the novel is the caretaker of the family. Calpurnia is a very strong willed person who never thinks twice about disciplining the children. Her way of life also affects how Jem and Scout grow up. Even in our society, women are still looked as inferior and many still think that women are not strong enough to handle a specific task. http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&biw=1366&bih=643&tbm=isch&tbnid=236LIvprj-Ek1M:&imgrefurl=http://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/g/glass_ceiling.asp&docid=-ldDhvafuTH3fM&imgurl=http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/gll/lowres/glln50l.jpg&w=400&h=309&ei=E64gT-KjGIfXiQKmt83BBw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=170&vpy=186&dur=232&hovh=197&hovw=255&tx=152&ty=146&sig=102127557791870205876&page=1&tbnh=119&tbnw=154&start=0&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0
In this cartoon it shows that men are always downgrading and thinking less of women.
I agree, a womens role is never fully appreciated, just like Calpurnia isn't always appreciated, for example altough Atticus does notice the things Calpurnia does aunt Alexandri just ignores how much Calpurnia has contributed to the family.
Question: In the video, why don't any men stop Olive from becoming the president. It is hard to change people's thoughts about another and Olive is suddenly changing the thoughts of the men. So, why do you think that there aren't any people rebelling or going against her thoughts?
Women really are the heart of the house. Yes, men are the bread-winners. However, it is the women who cut the bread, warm it up, butter it, and serve it. Also, women have this seductive side to them that holds the ability to melt their husband like putty in hands. I believe that men were not going against her thoughts simply because of her feminine power.
I think that the men did not stop Olive from becoming president because she was giving many good ideas that would help the men. For example, if the men married, then they would pay a lower tax.
In the video, Olive is portrayed as an "average" women. She constantly makes remarks about getting women a husband and about marriage. I think this video is stereotypical, because this is how the men saw women during this time period. They didn't think women were important and only saw them as people who take care of the family and clean the house.
Similarly, in the novel "To Kill a Mockingbird", many people tell Scout to be more ladylike. They portray a woman as being dainty. However, Scout doesn't enjoy hearing comments from her Aunt Alexandra constantly tells Scout to act more like a lady. She tells Scout she would be wearing a dress, and she shouldn't play outside. Scout doesn't care what anyone has to say, and continues doing things as she pleases. I don't think Scout enjoys the idea that men are superior to women. She wants to be able to lead others, and be superior, even though she is a woman.
Question: Why do some women accept being treated as inferior? I know some do not accept it, but in the novel, some women choose to accept it.
http://nicholeheady.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/11/03/cartoon.gif This cartoon represents how men saw the women during this time period. They were seen as useless.
I think they choose to accept it because they don't know any better. The men have always been the ones going to town, working in the offices, the court, the banks,etc. The women are always gathering in the house gossiping and sipping their tea. There are very few women who actually see what they could be and those are the ones who don't accept being treated as inferior, but the other women see everything through everyone's else's view because this is a small town and they probably don't want to be excluded or whatever if they have different opinions.
I agree with Payal on the point that women accept this treatment because they do not know any better than to just accept it and live life as it is. They have never been out of the box that society has put around women so only some women have actually been outside of this so called box.
Women have had a huge impact all throughout history. Men always felt they were superior and that women were just dumb. They felt women should just sit in the house and cook and clean. However, women have played a key role when needed. If we look back to the Revolutionary War, when Americans decided they wanted to boycott all the British goods, the American WOMEN came together in the Daughters of Liberty and they would sew clothes and stuff for everyone. They were also outstanding gossipers and this helped word spread around about boycotts, or about the tea party, and about revolution itself. Since men were so full of themselves, and believed women couldn't do anything, the Revolutionary War was the perfect time for women to prove themselves. On both sides there were women spies whose information determined the winning or losing of a battle. In World War 1 when all the men were away fighting, women took over factories and hospitals and they built ammunition, plowed fields, and paved streets. They supplied the armies with clothes, foods, and ammunition. Some were nurses in hospitals and some were in on the action, on the front lines treating soldiers right away. It's sad to think that the women had to do so much just to prove themselves, but they did it, and in 1920, the 19th Amendment,which was long overdue was finally ratified. Even now we have women who are giving their lives to defend our country.
In the video there's a lot of sexism especially in the beginning because when Olive says she wants to run for president, Popeye responds saying that she's running for husbands. In Olive's world when she's president, she switches the role of the men and women. The women are the ones in charge in the offices and with the secretaries and the men are the ones at home cooking and cleaning. Olive is very imaginative and when things are not in her favor she imagines things being better because she believes women deserve better. Instead of comparing, I'd like to contrast Olive's character with Aunt Alexandra. They both experience this sexism again women but Olive tries to make it better for herself, whereas Aunty A just goes with the flow. She thinks all women should act the way society wants them to- be clean and pretty and do your part in letting the race go on. It's pretty ironic though, because Aunty A thinks of herself as the MAN of the house, yet she believes women just do their part. She's basically taking form of the man that wants all girls to be girls. Maybe Scout realizes this or maybe she just doesn't want to be a girly-girl, because she's always coming up with logical responses to Aunty A's barked orders.
http://www.twainquotes.com/suffrage2.gif This picture kind of relates to Olives switched up world. Instead of an Uncle Sam, it looks like an Aunt Sam, and instead of men petitioning for congress, it's a whole line of women petitioning for congress with a HUGE roll filled with signatures.
I think he felt it would be too hard on Jem, since he actually knew his mom. You know how in TV shows and books, how when a parents remarries, the kid automatically hates the new parent? I think that since Atticus is such a caring father, he wouldn''t want to put Jem through that.
I agree with anshika on the point that it would hurt the child that has already bonded with their parent that has died or left them. It would show Jem in this case, that Atticus didnt care about their well being and just cared about his own life. This also shows that in order to get rid of his pain, he is inflicting pain onto Jem by getting a new wife.
My question is a women vs. women thing. If the women didn't like being looked down upon so much, was looking down on black women and men a way for them to comfort themselves?
More than comforting themselves, I believe that looking down upon black women and men was a way to prevent themselves from being the least authoritative figurheads in society. They had not wanted to be seen as less than those who worked for them, so they therefore had looked down upon blacks.
Actually, I disagree Karisma. I don't believe that white women intentionally looked down on black women for the sake of feeling better about their own roles in society. It was just ingrained in their culture to despise African-Americans. Even present day, women are still not equal to men (i.e. women statistically receive lower wages for the same job) but we look down on some types of men, gangsters, troublemakers, and other groups. It is just ingrained in our culture and we don't do it to make ourselves feel superior.
The role of women was very limited back then to how it is now. Before, women would only clean, cook, or take care of the children. the role of women is still as important today as it was back then. Although today women stil clean, cook, and take care of the kids, now they have more freedom to explore other things rather than just cleaning. Olive shows this in the video by running for president, however she still demonstrates how established the role of women is because she cleans the streets and has a "secretary of love". I think Olive can be compared to Miss Maudie because both women are very strong and independent. Miss Maudie shows she has a different role as a woman because she doesnt have any children and doesnt follow the other womens gossip. She is very independent and still has a significant influence.
I think that the role of women vary among different countries based on the need. There may be a specific job needed to be done that women would have to do. They have to adapt to what will help them survive and prosper
I believe that the role of women in different countries was influenced by the culture and customs of the people of those nations. Some cultures actually have a lot of respect for females and mothers, while others seem to place no value at all on them. It all depends on the traditions of the people of that country and perhaps their customs from history influence the way women are treated in their societies now.
It seems that so far today's discussion has revolved around the idea that "back then" things were unfair towards women and that the movie shows a stereotypical view of a women's life. The first point i say is false, the second is inherently true. Women are still confined into a rigid box to live in, they are only given the illusion of freedom, the same to racial minorities. We like to believe that things have become equal, but in all honesty the haven't. Just last week Rick Santourum was quoted saying that "A women has no place in the office of the president." A view we would try to claim is a barbarism from the time of the cartoon. This cartoon may seem like it was made a long time ago, but 50 years is the blink of an eye to most of the world except here where we scurry about our lives like frightened little ants. 50 years is not enough time to root out a societal prejudice that began 2000 years ago when Constantine of Rome introduced the idea of "original sin" to the Bible, then trying to discredit the pagan respect for a women's internal power. Since then, all cultures under the influence of Abrahamic philosophy have, and still do, disregard women, and though some attempt to be different, the prejudice still permeates the fabric of our society. RIP Tupac Shakur: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfXwmDGJAB8
I think that is a very good point Kiyaan. We can still see that there is still a gap between the men and women, and there are many people who still think the same as 50 years ago. 50 years is a short time to get rid of a tradition of women inferiority. It is still seen today in one form or another, and it will be a long time before the idea of women inferiority becomes completely obsolete
Thank you Andrew, it feels strange calling you that... Anyway, agreed we still have a long way to go and saying anything otherwise is only going to send us backward on this road
But will women ever completely reach gender equality? No matter how many laws or movements that may happen, most men will still see themselves as superior. Male superiority is ingrained and innate for men, and for the most part, can be justified. Therefore, I do not see women inferiority becoming obsolete any time in the near future.
Through the course of history, up until the 1920's or so, women were treated as less. In this video, this is portrayed well. When Olive suggests becoming president, Popeye laughs as if it is the most ludicrous thing he has ever heard. She also promises "frilly" things, nothing of substance. People think that women are only used for the "easy" work.
In the book, Calpurnia is both a woman and a black, putting her at the extreme bottom of society. She cooks and cleans, showing that in this time, women were still considered the bottom. Though Scout is a little higher in society than Calpurnia since she is white, she is still very low, being a woman. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V0cfqqRYSs&feature=related This song is Keep Ya Head Up by Tupac. In the song, he wonders why everyone hates woman, since they do so much.
My Question is: Why do people believe the empty promises that Olive has made? They know it can't be true, so why do they choose to believe it now and pay the consequences later?
They don't know people can talk all they want but only their actions could support it. Just like for many leaders the people choose the one they believe is going to support their words with action and that's what many thought about Olive
You stole my song link Anshika... and agreed with Antony, leaders make empty promises all the time, and people follow them, mostly because they give the leader more power than they actually have, like in the USA, the president really can only hinder things with a veto, but cannot really do anything to move along events without congress on his/her side. However people dont know that, and so they expect the president to do all they said they did when its not really possible to do so. They shouldnt make the promise in the first place yes, but that has just become an inherent part of campaigning.
Any woman that tries to break free of the box put around women is immediately faced with a choice, be content to live the life of a "lady" or to sell out and pretend to be a man. Scout is a young woman growing up and trying to learn her way around the world and she is confronted with this choice throughout the course of the novel. The choice between being Olive or being Mulan, and neither is appealing to her. She does the best she can throughout the story in a society bent of reigning her in
I think that this is a good point because although scout doesn't wan to be a lady and is tomboyish, she didn't have the opportunity to take on a man's role and could only pretend. She wants to be who she wants, but society disapproves. She really is just trying to work her way through the world.
I agree with both of you. I think that Scout is a person who is still young and still learning the ways of the world. She is a person who doesn't want to do what other people tell her to do. Instead, Scout is someone who wants to be unique and have her own way of life.
I disagree with all three of you..in a sense. Firstly, women do NOT need to necessarily "pretend to be men" to break free from the constraints set by the society of the time period. Sure women used the "pretending to be a man" card to be able to wear pants; sure women "pretended to be men" so they could fight in wars. This wasn't the CHOICE. This was the package that came with the choice of fighting for freedom. Many women openly declared the need for change even if it was outrageous at the time. Secondly, I do not entirely agree with the "Scout was trying to be tomboyish" view. I believe she doesn't do it on purpose, it is merely her surroundings: her brother, her father, her neighbors, her community that influenced her to be who she. Had she not been born in a time of prejudice and discrimination, she would be different. Every single event and person in her life affected her to become who she is. IN FACT (I just realized this) it is her community's fault for making her "tomboy-ish".
Michelle, you are correct that it is not as blatant as in say Mulan where they are literally pretending to be men, but let's face it, all positions of power are in testosterone flooded fields, and so a women who wants to join that field to gain power often has to conform to that high aggression, high testosterone mentality. Everything in the modern age is a continuation of past traditions on a subtle and covert front, no longer are women walking around claiming to be men to do what only men are "supposed" to do, but a feminine figure that tries to play in business or politics will be shot down. Its not right, but to often it ends up being the truth.
In the clip you could see that popeye ridiculed olive for trying to run for president. You could see the sexism of the time. A woman should be at home in the kitchen or whatnot. But olive quickly rebutted by telling popeye what she would do when she became president. She would start to spew out these feminine ideals that were geared towards women and children. Such as the longer honeymoons and 1 cent ice cream cones. ALthough these were her ideals she was acting naive towards the whole situation. She thought that if a woman was president they could do everything better that the bitter old men. She thought that she could make children happy by selling them 1 cent all day ice cream cones. although it sounds good it isn't for the economy. They would probably lose a lot more money trying to sell those. I also noticed her own sexism towards men. She wanted to be put superior to men rather than equal. She wanted the 98% tax on single men to force then to find a woman in hopes that she would show them that life is better with a woman. by doing that she took away a man's liberty to look for a wife the he actually liked. She also would propose the Women wear the pants in the family act to basically switch the role of men and women. Its also seen in the Bill she would propose to give women male secretaries. I do think that the women's role in society back then limited what they could do and treated them as inferior. it didn't give them the liberty to find jobs they wanted. They merely had to take care of children and stay in the kitchen, but equality isn't reached by taking away the other party's liberties, but by agreeing to have the same liberties as the other. (Sorry about the off-topic ramble) I think that Cal did represent the role of a woman back then. She was a caretaker of the Finch family. She would make their meals and scold Jem and Scout when they were doing something wrong. She was almost raising the kids. Also we see Cal a lot in the kitchen where most women back then were. If you think about it, she chose the perfect job for a women back then. A caretaker. She almost didn't have the liberty to take on an office job or such because they were for men and not women. Almost the same as the beginning of the clip where we saw popeye laugh at olive for wanting to run for president. A women holding an office job was ridiculous, but to go for president was even more. It was almost impossible to get one for a woman. I think that Cal really represents this situation well .http://www.google.com/imgres?q=role+of+1950%27s+women&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1570&bih=873&tbm=isch&tbnid=ETBEhQrSTrMQ1M:&imgrefurl=http://1950sconformity.blogspot.com/2011/05/women.html&docid=EUTLFe2Y3hTo3M&imgurl=http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6sVnjxnoXIg/TchC0UXZGoI/AAAAAAAAAAM/82b51V7CdU8/s1600/gender%252Bfeminine%252B1.jpg&w=281&h=290&ei=LNAgT6nFF4XjiAKD3ejKBw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=641&vpy=534&dur=2025&hovh=228&hovw=221&tx=193&ty=176&sig=113896129902599696219&page=1&tbnh=160&tbnw=190&start=0&ndsp=33&ved=1t:429,r:28,s:0 This picture shows you that back then women pretty much "catered" to a man
Going back to my little ramble about Olive. I do think she was naive, but this is a case by case situation. This situation comes up with men too. Naivety isn't something that only one side has. It is shared by both in case by case situations.
Great points, hear hear. Your ramble isn't off topic however, to the contrary, it is absolutely correct that simply reversing the polarity of the inequality will not help things, in fact reversing the polarity of anything almost never really helps, and society would be destroyed in the ensuing chaos should that sort of drastic act be attempted. Your argument does a great job of balancing the truth of discrimination, while also trying to caution that though women have a right to be angry, blind actions to get "revenge" like Olives will only worsen the situation. Genius work.
I agree with you Andrew on the point that Calpurnia was the mother of the family of three. She took on all the responsibility that a mother should take therefore implying herself the second half of the family. Olive Oyl isn't named what she is for nothing either. Olive oil implies the cooking and the kitchen. But it also implies the stuff makes the texture of the food taste just right implying women's role in the family. The men provide the food and the women make it a masterpiece. So in this case, women being "catered" to men would be the best word choice.
Although we can't change the past and women's roles back then would stay in the past. What would happen if women were given equality earlier and how would it look like in modern society? Also, how would modern society look if there was no gender gap in the first place?
If women were given equality earlier and if there were no gender gap at all, I think that the modern society today would have progressed greatly in equality. Even today, we are slowly balancing the rights and freedoms between men and women. If women were given equality earlier, it would speed up the process. If there were no gender gap, then we would have all been equal to begin with.
I think that if women had been given equality earlier, they would have been present in the professional world much earlier. Women would have had reached the positions of men, or even higher by now. If there had been no gender gap in the first place, modern society would be much more equal. There would be an equal number of female and male leaders, authoritative powers, and care takers throughout our modern society.
Women's roles in society are many without a doubt. Without them, society would definitely fall apart. An example of this would be the movie "Mars Needs Moms". To compare a different characteristic very typical in the popular culture today, I will use Miss Maudie as an example. Miss Maudie shows the side of women without the tyranny of men being a widow. She keeps with the gossip around the town and therefore becomes a very trusted source of information for anyone trying to find something out. She also becomes a sort of motherly figure to anyone who she sees fit to be towards. She represents women who are innately good even when men aren't around. This image maybe an example what her role is taken as to most people in Maycomb County. http://bluebook.state.or.us/images/facts/scenic/suffrage/steamrollerloc.jpg My question to you is this: Why wouldn't women be put down in society when they are compared with children? Ex:Save the women and children first.
During the mid 1900s, women had been typically seen as the inferior to men in the professional working world. But, the limited power of women had not only been existant during this time period. Throughout history, the power of women had pretty much been restricted only to inside the household and towards children. Women are typically percieved as the loving, emotional, and caring authorities of society, and due to these factors many people think that these traits will "distract" them from a professional working position. However, I disagree with these opinion of these individuals. I believe that women can carry out any task that any man could, along with also carrying out their other responsibilities of being care-takers, loving mothers, and house keepers. The quote "Behind every great man, there is a woman" means exactly what it states. In society, men have been the presents, speakers, and main workers, but behind every successful man, there may be a great woman guiding him through all obstacles in life.
In this video, I think that Olive is trying to prove that she can carry out more than one role in society. She is stating that she could run for president and hold an authoritative power while also being the loving and caring "girly girl" that she is. She may also be saying that maybe out world needs a little more love and a little less war. That maybe if we all understood one another, our chances of gaining peace would be much higher. In some cases, she may be too focused on the "love" matter of everything and how it could be applied to every single issue/problem that occurs, but maybe this is because she has never been given the chance to explore this professional world. Maybe she just needs a chance to understand exactly what this "hidden" professional world is all about.
Just the same, in the novel I believe that Scout has the potential to live up to the expectations of any other man in the society she lives in. Being raised by a single father and having an older brother, she has been exposed to the minds and ways of thinking of men/boys and therefore has a "secret weapon" if she ever did want to enter the professional world. She may not ever want to become a mother and have children due to the fact that her mother died at an age of which Scout can barely even remember her. Scout had never truly experienced the role of a mother being played out, so therefore she has absolutely no idea of what to expect.
Just like Olive, I believe that Scout does have the yearning to explore and take a stand in male dominant fields. She has the potential and background necessary to do so, and now the only thing holding her back would be the rest of society telling her otherwise.
This political cartoon shows how the women wear the pants in the family as they do all of the household works as well. http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/files/images/womens-suffrage-cartoon.jpg
My question is: Why do you think that women did not take a stand for power, authoritative powers, and other professional positions in society earlier in history? Was it the men in society holding them back or did women feel that they could not accomplish these jobs themselves?
Actually, in some early civilizations such as Egypt, women actually were able to rule and had equal rights as men had. However, in most other civilizations, men were "superior". I think women did not take a stand for power for the simple fact that they were not able to. A female had no voice and if she tried to speak out she was punished by the men who are unfortunately physically stronger. It was not until women saw that there was strength in numbers and banned together that they began to be seen as equals.
Even though women weren't regarded or recognized as highly as today, they have played a significant role in developing the modern era we live in today. In the background, women have always supported the family and raised the children who would grow up to become influential figures in society. Such an example is like Cal. Cal is the caretaker of the Finch's home and does many of the things that a regular housewife would do. Without her, the family would not have food on the table or a suitable house to live in. Cal and her role as the caretaker are a very important factor in Jem's and Scout's life. http://english.bayynat.org.lb/womenfamily/woman1.htm Now here's a question; How do you think Jem, Scout and Atticus' lives would be effected if Calpurnia weren't there for them?
Women really have played a significant role. Without them, the children wouldn't have been raised properly. There would have been no cooked dinner, and there would be a messy house. Women played a small yet major role.
Many people of both the past and the present believe that women have always been restricted and limited to the role of wife and mother. The jobs of cleaning, cooking, and caring for children have always been reserved and expected from women. However, I would like to introduce a different perspective: this role of women is natural, evident in nature itself. It is the female birds that lay the eggs and feed the baby chicks. It is the mothers and females that the lion cubs remain with until full maturity. The unfairness really comes from men oppressing women and their freedom of self-thinking and exploration and discovery. Though understandble but still unjustified, men seemed to think that with women's long, accepted history of passivity and house chores, this would never change and so dismissed any idea of them leaving the "nest" at home. On the other hand, I would also like to point out that it is the female penguins that leave the nest and egg behind to search for food while the mates are left to care for the egg. It the male red foxes that teach its cubs survival skills. This proves that women are not only meant to be wives and mothers, but also the backbone of our country. They have and always will aspire, struggle, and fight along side all men. In turn, women have also significantly proved their worth and ability for the past centuries: women are in the army, women are in Congress, women are running for president.
I believe Olive, if she really worked hard and truly aimed to become president, could definitely do so. However, she does not display the effort or understanding of what the leader of a country means and represents. She is in fact dictatorial in "comically" hitting her husband when he spoke his opinion of Olive running for president. Her propositions benefit the country, in my opinion, not at all. She in fact takes the peoples, especially men's, freedom away in basically forcing marriage, the complete opposite of the perspective that men oppress women. She presents no real benefit to the country and instead suggests a life of indulgence and luxury and is thus incapable of becoming president.
On the other hand, Miss Maudie, from the novel "To Kill a Mockingbird", has the proper set of values and mannerism to possibly be an important figure in her town. She is fair and intends no real harm while also kindly guiding the growing child, Scout, to a similar propriety. She does not discriminate against those with another religion and belief. She does not spread unnecessary gossip like Miss Stephanie does. Lastly, she does not impose a sudden, impossible change upon the Finch household of Maycomb County as Aunt Alexandra does.
Well genetically men are better equipped then women. There is a point 5th/6th grade were women exceed men however men catch up after this time with muscle development and growing. But putting that aside women can do just about anything a man can if they put there mind to it. They can't fall into that belief that they are less then men.
Answer: Plain and simple... OF COURSE! We can do anything they can do but in heels aaaand multitask. I really think the only advantage men have is their physical strength. :P
I admit that the average man is built to be physically stronger than the average woman but my point was that a woman with ambition could BECOME stronger than the average man both physically and mentally...and politically.
Women can be as strong as men physically and mentally it doesn't matter what gender you are you can accomplish anything, but only if you put your mind and effort into it.
Women can do anything a man can. But realistically, men do grow bigger and taller than most women, so that is to their advantage, but based on intelligence, there are many women out there like Hilary Clinton to prove that women can be just as powerful as men.
I think women are as good as men. Although they can't do EVERYTHING a man does, there are some things that they can do better than men. They things that men do better are mostly physical, because men can normally grow bigger and stronger than women. Women are equal to men, but each can accomplish different tasks.
Women throughout history, have always been looked at as inferior. This has changed recently, however throughout history examples of women stepping up to the challenge and doing the unexpected constantly appear. For example in war women would pretend to be male. In Olive running for president we see a women doing the unexpected to fix her nation. I believe that Scout's reluctance to become more women like is in part due to her unwillingness to give into that women are less then men to mentality. She wants to make a difference just like olive. http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&sa=X&biw=1366&bih=667&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=LuW10iLUdp_OfM:&imgrefurl=http://filmfather.blogspot.com/2009/02/mulan-1998.html&docid=J9_J9rrJGbNMUM&imgurl=http://1.bp.blogspot.com/__oqV_kUSrws/SZXr_evcRSI/AAAAAAAAAdE/qzzQQnbXP_8/s320/mulan3.jpg&w=273&h=230&ei=l-IgT_CDCeeLiAKHzungBw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=582&vpy=141&dur=3860&hovh=184&hovw=218&tx=93&ty=62&sig=110584891265635206328&page=1&tbnh=159&tbnw=189&start=0&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0
The "perfect" woman has grown and evolved through the generations. To Kill A Mockingbird occurs in the early 20th century, and Miss Maudie is the symbol of that generation's view on what a woman should be like. Softspoken, modest, honest, hardworking,feminine, and caring are traits that Miss Maudie projects as a woman who knows her place. This is how all females were expected act during this time period.
In our generation, the views on how women are supposed to act as portrayed by the media have some similarities and differences to that of TKAM's generation. In our pop culture, women are protrayed as girly, independent, flirtatious, curvy, skinny, and confident with average intelligence. They are supposed to enjoy things such as shopping and "face-booking".
Hey girls, apparantly we're supposed to look like this... http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb149/phenomenaonbreak/Fap/megan%20fox/megan_fox_04a.jpg
Question: What do you think the "perfect" woman will be like in the eyes of people 50 or so years from now?
Honestly, for me, and I hope many others, I dont like a pretty face unless it comes with a good personality and a good heart. What was that quote..Be good inside AND out. What's a face? Merely a part of us, easily changed with today's modern technology, for better or for worse.
I believe there is no way of knowing what the new fad is going to be. Therefore, it is impossible to predict the status women will have in 50 years. Despite this, I am curious myself about how women will be treated and expected to behave half a century from now.
I believe you are right that the way women have become are totally different than what was expected back then. Women submitted to their husbands because they were the bosses, and women are expected to be quiet and loyal. Now, it's definitely not like that.
Our view of the “perfect woman” will constantly develop and grow. 50 years ago, the “perfect woman” was a soft-spoken, demure lady who worked around the house and her life’s mission was having kids. Now, the “perfect woman” is probably considered to be a strong, open-minded, ambitious girl who sets out to follow her dreams. In another 50 years? The “perfect woman” will probably be a girl who accomplishes her goals and makes a name for herself in the world.
As seen in the Pop Eye Animation, women had the main goal of marrying a good, handsome man that could support the family. Moreover, it was the women's job to take care of the children which is seen in To Kill a Mockingbird when Atticus invited Alexandra to stay since he feared his children would not be able to grow up properly without female guidance. Therefore, indirectly,women had the control over the next generation. However, they did not utilize this to their favor and try to change women's status by raising their children into thinking women and men were equal. Why? This is a political cartoon that shows the role of women in society present-day: http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1366&bih=641&tbm=isch&tbnid=s8u30M0l0mEaXM:&imgrefurl=http://www.imow.org/wpp/stories/viewStory%3Fstoryid%3D1866&docid=L4nejnKBWm_Y6M&imgurl=
Though it is true that women held that power to control the next generation, a valid point, the question becomes, would the child retain the knowledge given to them by the mother? As you yourself said in class in The Help, this was not the case, the child did not retain the knowledge given to them and simply grew up to become the next jailer
I believe the role of women has changed a lot, but at the same time, much hasn't changed. The role of women has changed in that women can now have high positions or ranks, whereas back then, a woman couldn't even get a job. But women have stayed the same because some still stay at home, cook, and take care of the children. But even today, women are still looked as inferior. Men are "stronger," and more looked up to, while women are still required to do the tedious jobs of cleaning the house, washing dishes, while men are looked up to and do important jobs like running the country, having big, company jobs, etc. http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&biw=1680&bih=935&gbv=2&tbm=isch&tbnid=izWwattc4U8ATM:&imgrefurl=http://www.superstock.com/stock-photos-images/4048-6958&docid=4PaxDrWkuf9coM&imgurl=http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/4048/PreviewComp/SuperStock_4048-6958.jpg&w=313&h=350&ei=ofUgT7qSF6GmiQLE3JH7CQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=171&vpy=125&dur=1139&hovh=237&hovw=212&tx=140&ty=120&sig=100355616486675369661&page=1&tbnh=128&tbnw=113&start=0&ndsp=45&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0 this is an ironic photo where the role of women and men have been switched.
In the book Scout is seen as Tom boy because of her behavior in acting like a boy. However when Aunt Alexandra comes to take care of her and Jem she forces Scout to behave like a woman and dress like one too. This crucially affects Scout because her inner emotion is to be like a boy and have no worries about silly things like proper clothes. When aunt Alexandra tries to change her she is trying to change Scouts ability to be her own and do things men do because she isn't afraid. Similarly Olive Oyl is almost the same in a way because Olive wants to become president and only men have been elected. The main difference between Olive and scout is that Olive acts feminine, but doesn't act roughly like scout.http://blaine.org/jules/graceforpresident1.jpg
I agree, olive oyl wants to be president when only men have been. she claims that she would change how the world looked like and who should be wearing the pants in the family. the men usually provide for the house hold but olive oyl tries to show what sexist influences go on today
I think that the women in the past and the present are considered inferior to the men, but it definetly has changed through time. Women back then were not even close to the men, however, in the present their role has increased because they have another option other than to stay at home and do the chores and cooking.
Olive in popeye, is similar to Calpurnia in a way that they are both discriminated against, because they were women. Olive said that if she was president, she would increase taxes on single men to 98% and to married men they are tax free. so she is trying to say that men would be better off with a wife instead of staying alone. http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1600&bih=775&tbm=isch&tbnid=60yof9WBen7tzM:&imgrefurl=http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-10848520/stock-photo-discriminative-road-style-sign-depicting-sexism-and-discrimination.html&docid=fUe_BvEuv3ONHM&imgurl=http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/93267/93267,1206706068,63/stock-photo-discriminative-road-style-sign-depicting-sexism-and-discrimination-10848520.jpg&w=348&h=470&ei=_fggT5W-EcrWiAKj1a38Bw&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=490&sig=109156014197273091108&page=2&tbnh=140&tbnw=104&start=36&ndsp=42&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:36&tx=69&ty=67 this is a picture of a reversal. instead of men allowed in one area, its only women that are allowed. question: Why were the women considered inferior back then, why not the men? If the women could do the same things the men could do, would they still be discriminated?
Olive is much like Calpurnia in a way that they both fight for what they want. Olive wants to run for president and help the world by cleaning up the cities or having women have more rights. While, Calpurnia stands up for her race in the case of Tom Robinson.
Women were considered inferior back then because men thought that they were unable to accomplish tasks. Men thought low of them because in most households, the man was the one who did all of the work while the woman took care of this children. Later on, women started to take action and do jobs that men did, so people started to see them as equal.
Still seen today, men are superior to women. Most of the time you think of a mother that stays home and takes care of the children and cooks and cleans, while the husband is out working and supporting the family. That's how it was before when women didn't have the rights to get a job, vote, etc. And today, women are still seen as inferior, but has gained more rights. For example: Hilary Clinton ran for president in 2008 against Barack Obama. Although she did not win, this shows that, over the years, women have grown stronger. In the video, Olive wants to run for president. She says that as president, she would do many things like get a man for every girl or have silk worms make stockings for the ladies. Olive also says she wants the women to "wear the pants" instead of the men, which is giving women more rights. Olive is a strong woman in the video that wants to fight for women's right by running for president, which women were not allowed to do back then. This is like Scout in To Kill A Mockingbird because Scout doesn't want to be like what Aunt Alexandra is making her become like, more lady-like. Scout like to be like Atticus and Jem, like a man, because she feels like they have less restrictions and more rights than women. http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbnid=Xbri9kEEgeB-qM:&imgrefurl=http://www.dosomething.org/tipsandtools/terms-you-should-know-about-womens-rights&docid=kH2iKyb9FOgBQM&imgurl=http://www.dosomething.org/files/pictures/feminism_202b.jpg&w=267&h=350&ei=y_4gT4joDcWQiAKxiM2ECA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=324&vpy=74&dur=4834&hovh=257&hovw=196&tx=102&ty=195&sig=117587756686985897728&page=1&tbnh=106&tbnw=81&start=0&ndsp=14&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0&biw=1047&bih=457 this picture shows a woman acting strong and tough when people usually think that women can't do much hard labor.
Women have almost always been regarded as inferior, both in the past and in modern times. Although discrimination and racism of all kinds are frowned upon by today’s society, it doesn’t change the fact that gender discrimination still occurs around the world. Prejudices and judgments have shaped our society into what it is today, and these influences can clearly be seen in “Olive Oyl for President.” In the cartoon Olive is portrayed as overly feminine, and she is completely dependent on men. She is incapable of focusing on important issues and is exaggeratedly naïve. In To Kill a Mockingbird, Scout seems to be almost the opposite of Olive. She is a strong-willed girl who is stubborn and courageous. Unlike Olive, Scout does not want to fit the mold of the “ideal woman” and is not reliant on men to survive. Question: What was the effect of cartoons such as these on the American public? http://www.google.com/imgres?q=women+discrimination&hl=en&sa=X&rlz=1R2ADFA_enUS366&biw=1920&bih=899&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnsb&tbnid=dJjnEgUZIsC1UM:&imgrefurl=http://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/g/gender_discrimination.asp&docid=bji4hzxc9Bof-M&imgurl=http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/jwe0257l.jpg&w=400&h=313&ei=3f0gT8ObOaKQiQLiqpjLBw&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=265&sig=114959357483746240972&page=1&tbnh=112&tbnw=143&start=0&ndsp=59&ved=1t:429,r:12,s:0&tx=104&ty=55 This cartoon shows a woman at a job interview, and emphasizes the gender discrimination involved in certain jobs. I believe that everyone should be given an equal chance for jobs regardless of gender or race; prejudices such as the one shown here should be discouraged as much as possible.
This is my question for you: Women were the ones to care for the children when they're growing up. Why were women still seen as inferior to men when they were the ones who raised the men to who they grew up to?
I think the reason is that the men wanted to relegate the "unimportant" or lesser jobs to the women, while they did the "real" work of making money, when in reality, they were both equally important jobs.
I agree with Albert. Men only saw women as people who raised children and stayed in their homes. Men think they do the 'real' jobs, like holding office or working in shops and factories. They didn't know that raising children to be adults would be so difficult. To men, raising children wasn't a job, which is why they had the women do that. They thought that women were incapable and unskilled to do anything else.
Even today women are sometimes seen lower to men in society. There are many forms of discrimination going on right now but sexism is a reoccurring problem that we still face today. Not being sexist or anything, but even statistics show that women still get paid less than men. this comes from all over the world, many different cultures view women as stay at home maids who clean the house and cook food for the men. In olive oyl for president many examples of the gender discrimination that we se today are portrayed in the clip. for example the women wear the pants in the family bill/law that olive tried to pass was to represent that women arent usually making the money in the household and its usually the men who put the food on the table. http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1600&bih=785&tbm=isch&tbnid=FN7ZBCpi_30ZxM:&imgrefurl=http://maketheworldyourstage.com/improving-self-confidence-working-mommy/&docid=puqbtycpSVdSIM&imgurl=http://maketheworldyourstage.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Stay-home-mommy.jpg&w=311&h=333&ei=BAQhT7SQKOmSiAKq66DnBw&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=227&sig=102603437943083046276&page=1&tbnh=124&tbnw=116&start=0&ndsp=36&ved=1t:429,r:28,s:0&tx=56&ty=35 In the novel To kill a mocking bird calpurnia is portrayed as the motherly figure of Jem and Scout. She cooks, cleans the house and raises the two children as if they were her own. she scolds scout for being impolite to the guest to teach her life lessons and good values. http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&biw=1600&bih=785&tbm=isch&tbnid=SBBH8ozdSgnINM:&imgrefurl=http://www.toonpool.com/cartoons/working%2520women_55261&docid=_TCh2sTAtgEvKM&imgurl=http://www.toonpool.com/user/4799/files/working_women_552615.jpg&w=500&h=323&ei=agUhT7PcBuHKiQLr15nzBw&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=532&sig=102603437943083046276&page=1&tbnh=110&tbnw=170&start=0&ndsp=34&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:0&tx=134&ty=66 this image represents the women back then who raised the children as their own but instead were treated differently as they had cared for and nourished the children.
In this video, women are represented by Olive Oyl, and her actions make it seem that women are narcissists who only care about sensual pleasures. For example, she wanted ice cream for a penny and clean floors everywhere. Now that I think of it, she is similar to Mildred in F 451. Mildred cared only about the minor, unimportant things in life, and this draws a parallel in that Olive will only do useless, unrealistic things once she becomes president. In the video, Olive never mentions economical issues, which represents that in the real world, women are only "in charge" or capable of doing insignificant things, while the men do the real work. This is seen in TKAM as Calpurnia has a somewhat important, but not pivotal role in the story. http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/for/lowres/forn600l.jpg cartoon of male dominance. My question: How does society's view of women contrast with the maxim's view (The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world) on women?
The society of this time period has created the stereotype that all women will ever amount to is being able to put a steamy hot meal on the dinner table. However, "the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world" demonstrates the idea that yes, although women are at home conducting less strenuous work compared to their husbands, they still have an impact on the future livelihood of the world.
I think that women are slowly starting to take on higher roles and more responsibility. At first, women had almost no rights, but throughout history, they slowly became more involved with the world. In the cartoon, Olive wanted to do what no woman has ever done, become president. In the past, presidents have only been men, but Olive believes that she can make big changes if she becomes the president. In TKAM, Scout tries to take on the role of a man. She is unlike other girls who grow up to become ladies. Scout dresses and acts differently. She is more like a man than other women in this novel. http://www.inc.com/uploaded_files/image/women-in-technology-face-uphill-battle-pop_8545.jpg This picture shows a very man-like women who is encouraging other women to take action and responsibilities in the world. How are women changing the world, and how are they held back from the world?
The role of women in the 1800s and early 1900s were nothing compared to today. Back then, women weren't allowed to do almost anything, except tend to their children and homes. Even children wandered about freely in their towns, while the women stayed in the homes. Women were never really given any real jobs, other than cooking, cleaning, and raising children. When slavery was around, the servants cooked and cleaned, and sometimes took care of the children. So, the women had even less to do, and started gossiping with each other. In To Kill a Mockingbird, Scout wanted to be more than just a person taking care of her house and children, which is why she denied Aunt Alexandrea. As a woman, Socut wouldn't be able to run around, and do things that Jem would do. Scout mostly played with Jem, and so she looked up to and respected him. She probably wanted to be more like him, so she followed him around and did the same things he did. Olive Oyl wants to run for president because she sees the ridulous, but effective, ways of the running candidates. She gets upset when Popeye laughs at her idea of running for president. This shows how men thought of women, at that time. They only thought of women as the housefolk. http://www.designhistory.org/images_posters/Rosie-LARGE.jpg This image shows a woman flexing and saying, "We can do it!" Women want to show their strength in things other than housework. But, its hard for them to do that, if the men don't give them a chance. My question is, why do some men (even now) view women as weaker than them, because there are also many things that women can do that men can't?
Olive’s campaign values can be closely compared to Aunt Alexandra’s presence in To Kill a Mockingbird. Important principles for Olive were cleanliness of the country, dropping prices for married families and children, and anything related to feminine moral. These ideas were oh so dear to Olive; however, you cannot build a thriving country with this ideology as the frame work. These are miniscule problems compared to the major issues of the world. This can be related to Aunt Alexandra’s way of thinking. The perfect hour glass figure and dressing/acting like a moral lady should were the only ethics Alexandra held. This is completely reflective of society’s women at the time. They were taught to think and act this way. This next political cartoon demonstrates how men are the root of women of these times. http://njdh.scc-net.rutgers.edu/enj/lessons/womens_suffrage/img/votes_for_women.jpg
Question: Are today’s women still considered inferior the modern male?
Women in our society is very different to the women in TKAM. Women in TKAM didn't any of the housework, since they had slaves. So, they would just sit and gossip about what is going around in town. This made them lower than the males. Males were able to do so much more than women. Males at that time, had many options to explore and try new stuff. Now, men and women are able to do the same things. Men don't have that much more rights than women. http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&biw=1280&bih=699&tbm=isch&tbnid=YqUMzq1He8S56M:&imgrefurl=http://ei-awn.org/&docid=lMy77mTY0saYPM&imgurl=http://ei-awn.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/male-female-equality.jpg&w=400&h=300&ei=VZRNT-v6KOSfmQW4uOj7Dw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=340&vpy=162&dur=1974&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=88&ty=76&sig=101781190994432040183&page=1&tbnh=159&tbnw=225&start=0&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0 this picture shows how men and women now are equal and that there is no big difference between men and women. question: do you think Scout will have the same personality if her mother was there for her as a motherly figure and women role model?
I believe the role of women has changed drastically throughout the years. During the 1900s, when suffrage movements were popping up across the country, women's role in society was in its true form. Years of neglect to women's rights led to the climax and the role before the movements were to be a housewife, and act almost as a "slave" to the family, providing them for their needs, such as cooking food and maintaining a clean household. Since then, the role has changed drastically. Women can freely vote, work, and even serve in the armed forces but is still seen as inferior to the man. Women are still paid and respected less. However, the female presence in the household is still necessary in raising a family. Taking suffrage movements to the maximum, Olive is a brave character that tries to run for president and create policies based on a "girl's dreams" of being in love, being a princess, and living in luxury. Every bill or act she tries to pass involves romance, such as finding a gal for every man. In a time where women could just be seen as voting, this cartoon can seen as very radical, but respectable.
ReplyDeleteHere is a political cartoon depicting suffrage.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Political_cartoon_commenting_on_women%27s_voting_rights_in_Quebec.jpg
A thought provoking question: Why do you think women are STILL less respected today?
I think that women are still less respected because due to our previous society, women were inferior which has gotten rid of most of it, but not all causing the idea in man that says we are superior and women are inferior.
DeleteI also feel that Scout can be compared to Olive. Olive tries to take on the high stress job of being president, a career reserved mainly for males. Likewise, Scout is the sore thumb of Maycomb, and tries to dress, act, and be a boy. However, no doubt that as Scout matures, she will become more ladylike. Olive's policies as president still reflect the childhood dream of every girl: to be a princess. Although Scout has none of these notions, she has some girlish qualities that will be developed as the book goes on.
DeleteI think that womeon are still less respected because even in today's reality, men are usually the ones who get high ranked jobs and many men become rich in business, etc. Also, people still remember how society was in the past and how women were thought of as "less" than men.
DeleteIt is true that rights of women have changed but even today, we are seen inferior just because we aren't male. But the thought and idea of the man being better than the female still lingers over us sadly.
DeleteI agree with the fact that women today are still looked down upon. It is hard for people to change another's thoughts and prejudices so quickly so many people still see women as inferior to the men.
DeleteI think women are not respected as much as men today because men have always played major roles throughout history. Women have always been looked at as the ones who just cook and contribute to the next generation. However, I think today women are somewhat respected. Many women soldiers fight in wars and even run for president
DeleteI think women are still seen as inferior to men because of our traditions. Men have always been seen as superior and more important. Because our ancestors and others in history have been exposed to this concept of women being inferior, it is hard to forget it. Some people say that the first way you learn something is the only way you remember. Similarly, people always learned that men are superior, so it is never forgotten.
DeleteThere is a point there Katy, but, it was not always so, in fact it wasn't until the onset of the Abrahamic religions and their idea of original sin, an idea made to better weed out previous religions that tradition changed. Before then, both males and females were most often traditionally looked upon as equals in the minds of society, they were not looked as the same thing, but equal nonetheless
DeleteEven though men have always been seen as playing the major roles in history, without women no one would be here today, and I mean this biologically and emotionally. Biologically because you know you need the gametes to produce kids and all, but I mean emotionally in a sense that women have always been the protectors of the family, and even the men. All over the worlds there have been SOOOOO MANNNYYY WARS, and some of them were so bad that men came back traumatized, and women were there to support them and help them in their everyday lives. Even in animals like birds, we see that if you even attempt to or the mother bird think you're going to hurt its baby birds or eggs, they will attack like crazy, showing my point that women are the protectors of the family.
DeleteWomen are still considered inferior because they do things or work jobs that are considered inferior. These jobs are cleaning the house, cooking the food, or raising children. This can be proven because there are men who do these same things and they are also considered inferior. From a psychological stand point, the reason why women are paid less in the workplace is because they are expected to do more for less.
DeleteOver the last 100 years, the role of women has conspicuously. Before World War I and World War II, women used to be housewives. They would do things like wash the clothes, cook food, watch the kids, and clean the house. At that time period they were only educated to maybe 6th grade. However, during the turn of World War I and World War II, women were actually working. Some, if not most, would act as nurses during the war. They would watch over the wounded and also care for them. However, in todays society, women work and are also housewives. Some mothers are single and they do a job and watch over their child so that they get a proper education. In TKAM Calpurnia is like a nurse who is watching after the wounded. She is like a mother to Jem and Scout and making sure that they do not do anything silly or “dumb.” Jem and Scout are like the wounded soldiers because they are feeble in the sense that their mistake could end up getting them in trouble just like a wounded soldier. Olive is like the Elizabeth Cady Stanton of her time period. Just like Stanton, Olive is the first lady to want to get a voice in the government and also the first lady to run for president like Hillary Clinton.
ReplyDeleteThis image shows the danger of allowing women to vote during the 1900's.
http://us.history.wisc.edu/hist102/photos/assets/photos/1014.jpg
My question is: Do you think more is expected out of women in today's society or during the 19th and 20th century?
I think more is expected out of women today because of the equality the women have gained. Now, women can ask a guy out, work a steady job, and contribute a big chunk to a family's finances. Men and women are almost seen as equal. In mathematical terms, let m=man, and w=woman. If m=w, and "m" has the duties of taking care of the family, supporting the home, and other duties necessary to fulfill primary and secondary drives, then "w" also has these duties as well.
DeleteWell obviously today's society is expecting more out of women than the 19th and 20th century because, in the past, men thought that all women could do were house chores, caring for the baby, and stuff like that. So, of course, they would not be expected much out of since they are thought of as people who do only a few things.
DeleteI think more is expected from women today. I think this because today women have more freedom. Women didn't get the right to vote until 1920! Also, women today are involved in politics just like men and they are definitely considered as equals today. In other parts of the world, it may not be so, but in America we are all equal. Just like in the U.S constitution it says "We, the people of the United States" referring to BOTH men and women citizens.
DeleteI wouldn't say women are considered equals today in the U.S. because although they are treated way better than 100 years ago, in some fields women still earn less than men for the same amount of work. President Obama even addressed this in his speech yesterday, by saying women should get equal pay for equal work, so women are still not being treated 100% fairly.
DeleteApologies for my cynical views, but honestly, women are not equal in today's world, they are about as equal as racial minorities are to whites. They are in fact only seen as equal if they act and do what men are "supposed to do." In other words, they are only equal if they sell out all that makes them women when they enter testosterone run fields like business and politics. I'm not saying that women should not be involved in these things, to the contrary, but I am saying that they should not have to become "men" in their views and character to be able to succeed.
DeleteI dont think women are becoming men i think that women just have the same goals as some guys and they try hard to accomplish them even if it means losing some of their womanhood. anyway i think woman have already accomplished a lot in todays society and in the future woman with achieve even more.
DeleteAs depicted in the short film, women are supposedly prissy, nice, and neatfreaks about everything. This is so untrue! :( Scout, a girl, is more of a tomboy then a girl girl. She is who she is and shouldn't succumb to such a sterotype of females. True, the things Popeye say are somewhat true, without the presence of a woman, men and children wouldn't be able to survive, as women are the caretakers and nurturers of children. What's wrong with what Popeye is saying is that women should just be seen as lesser people and should just stay at home and not do anything that may "hurt" and "destroy" their so called reputation of being a girly girl. Scout, though a tomboy, is perfectly fine in breaking the standards of being feminine. Boty Olive and Scout emit a strong sense of independence and strength which is one similarity they have. Even today, women are seen as inferiors and lesser people to males which is totally unfair and sexist. My question is, "Why do males think of themselves higher than females?"
ReplyDeleteThis is a picture showing the independence and strength of women. http://www.google.com/imgres?q=women%27s+rights&hl=en&biw=1366&bih=557&gbv=2&tbm=isch&tbnid=Xbri9kEEgeB-qM:&imgrefurl=http://www.dosomething.org/tipsandtools/terms-you-should-know-about-womens-rights&docid=kH2iKyb9FOgBQM&imgurl=http://www.dosomething.org/files/pictures/feminism_202b.jpg&w=267&h=350&ei=HJYgT_GJGrDSiAKEkpTSBw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=449&vpy=124&dur=827&hovh=257&hovw=196&tx=143&ty=121&sig=104304804916370223307&page=1&tbnh=158&tbnw=121&start=0&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0
Daphne, I think males think they are superior to females since males have long been considered the head of the family, and the backbone of the household. Men work to provide for the home, whether it is paying the bills, buying the food, or paying for tuition. Only recently have women gained this equality, which is why I feel society puts men above women.
DeleteSorry Daphne but I disagree with one of your points with Scout. You see Scout is the girl that likes to follow people. She is not very independent and looks for what Jem says about the topic. If she says something, she will not follow up with it if Jem says "no." Additionally, I think that your image is very captivating. I highly agree with the picture because it shows that women can do as much work as men do.
DeleteI may have worded it wrong, but to me Scout is thinking for herself. She may be influenced by others around her, but aren't we all? We learn from others and we imitate each other sometimes without even realizing it. Though the idea of being girly is not new to Scout, she chooses to wear her jeans and act tough and stand up for herself.
DeleteThis maybe because men think themselves superior to anything and everything after a certain age. In this case, it also applies to women. In addition, men think of superiority as who has the most strength. Women in the family tend to be less prominently powerful than men are in society.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThroughout history, people have always thought that men were better and more responsible than women. In real life and even in the movie, it is shown that women can not do much and if there was something that they could do, it was normally cleaning, house-labor, etc. At first, when Olive said that she wanted to be president, Popeye started cracking up due to the thought of having a woman as president.
ReplyDeleteBut as the the popeye movie and To Kill A mockingbird we see that Scout and Olive both have the same determination and motivation to be able to succeed in what only men are considered to do in both stories. I think in order to stop this womenly prejudice, men should give those women a chance in both stories and they would see the potential of women.
My question is if Scout was more of a girl-like personality and not a tomboy, do you think that that would have severely changed the story of To Kill A Mockingbird? Give an example.
This cartoon shows the prejudice against women. It is an example of a stereotype against them.
http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/rma/lowres/rman13085l.jpg
I think that is a good point. If Scout was more lady-like, To Kill a Mockingbird would be very different. For example, there would not be as much focus on women's rights and how they are seen. If Scout were lady-like, Aunt Alexandra may have never came to live with the Finch family.
DeleteI agree with the fact that scout and Olive are trying to do things that only men were considered able to do. Considering that Scout was always acting tomboyish and was told to do the opposite by many people, but she yielded to almost no one.
DeleteI agree that both Olive and Scout are people who stand up for themselves and want to be able to have the same rights as men. I think that both of them wanted to make an impact on the world and show that women have the same ability to accomplish things as men.
DeleteDuring WWI, women had to occupy factories and shops because men were off to war. They built tanks and munitions and helped supply the soldiers with food, clothing, and shoes. Finally, they seemed capable to the world, that they can do a man's job. However, when the war ended, the men came back(if they came back...) and the women left work in the factories and shops. Using this, I think that back then no matter what women did, they were looked at as less superior. Women have always been see that way because 'men were the first to walk the earth.'
ReplyDeleteI think Olive Oyl is the stereotypical girly girl. She wants silk worms to make fancy silk if she becomes president and even has a "Bachelor's Tax." However, I think the most important part of the video was when she dresses up as the Statue of Liberty. My interpretation is that the statue represents freedom of women and it reminded me of Scout. Scout is always a free spirit and I think she symbolizes the freedom from becoming the stereotypical girl.
This picture represents Scout because she is the 'outcast' from other ladies including Olive Oyl. The other women in the book are tied up together while Scout is free.
http://freedominteractivedesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/freedom.jpg
My question: Do you think Olive and Scout are in some ways similar? Do you think these characters reflect today's society?
Hi Asha, I agree on your thoughts about Olive Oyl but i have to add that Olive was also taking the level too far. In the video, she was almost forcing the men to marry women in order to not pay taxes. I also think that she is also putting standards of women too high because she also states that the women should be the one in charge and the men would always follow their order. I agree on the fact that Olive was just trying to end the stereotype of women but I also think that she took it too far.
DeleteI think that Scout and Olive are are very different. Olive is very outgoing and does what she thinks is right where Scout always follows Jem.
DeleteI agree with Rohun on the fact that they are quite different, but for a different reason.
DeleteOlive uses her feminism to her advantage, and you can see by the counting "ladies" instead of sheep. Scout dislikes being a girl, and wouldn't ever use it like that. She wears overalls and never voluntarily wears dresses.
Scout and Olive are similar in the way that they want women to be more like men. Scout doesn't like being lady-like and chooses to be tomboy because she feels like men are given more rights. Olive wants to fight for women's rights by running for president and giving priorities to women, like having the women wear the pants.
DeleteThe role of women in the past and even now is a minority compared to how men are looked upon as. In my belief, I think that women had the most important tasks at home but they were never really appreciated. It is a stereotypical situation for women to tend and take care or the house and children. For example, Calpurnia in the novel is the caretaker of the family. Calpurnia is a very strong willed person who never thinks twice about disciplining the children. Her way of life also affects how Jem and Scout grow up. Even in our society, women are still looked as inferior and many still think that women are not strong enough to handle a specific task.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&biw=1366&bih=643&tbm=isch&tbnid=236LIvprj-Ek1M:&imgrefurl=http://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/g/glass_ceiling.asp&docid=-ldDhvafuTH3fM&imgurl=http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/gll/lowres/glln50l.jpg&w=400&h=309&ei=E64gT-KjGIfXiQKmt83BBw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=170&vpy=186&dur=232&hovh=197&hovw=255&tx=152&ty=146&sig=102127557791870205876&page=1&tbnh=119&tbnw=154&start=0&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0
In this cartoon it shows that men are always downgrading and thinking less of women.
I agree, a womens role is never fully appreciated, just like Calpurnia isn't always appreciated, for example altough Atticus does notice the things Calpurnia does aunt Alexandri just ignores how much Calpurnia has contributed to the family.
DeleteQuestion: In the video, why don't any men stop Olive from becoming the president. It is hard to change people's thoughts about another and Olive is suddenly changing the thoughts of the men. So, why do you think that there aren't any people rebelling or going against her thoughts?
ReplyDeleteWomen really are the heart of the house. Yes, men are the bread-winners. However, it is the women who cut the bread, warm it up, butter it, and serve it. Also, women have this seductive side to them that holds the ability to melt their husband like putty in hands. I believe that men were not going against her thoughts simply because of her feminine power.
DeleteI think that the men did not stop Olive from becoming president because she was giving many good ideas that would help the men. For example, if the men married, then they would pay a lower tax.
DeleteIn the video, Olive is portrayed as an "average" women. She constantly makes remarks about getting women a husband and about marriage. I think this video is stereotypical, because this is how the men saw women during this time period. They didn't think women were important and only saw them as people who take care of the family and clean the house.
ReplyDeleteSimilarly, in the novel "To Kill a Mockingbird", many people tell Scout to be more ladylike. They portray a woman as being dainty. However, Scout doesn't enjoy hearing comments from her Aunt Alexandra constantly tells Scout to act more like a lady. She tells Scout she would be wearing a dress, and she shouldn't play outside. Scout doesn't care what anyone has to say, and continues doing things as she pleases. I don't think Scout enjoys the idea that men are superior to women. She wants to be able to lead others, and be superior, even though she is a woman.
Question: Why do some women accept being treated as inferior? I know some do not accept it, but in the novel, some women choose to accept it.
ReplyDeletehttp://nicholeheady.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/11/03/cartoon.gif
This cartoon represents how men saw the women during this time period. They were seen as useless.
I think they choose to accept it because they don't know any better. The men have always been the ones going to town, working in the offices, the court, the banks,etc. The women are always gathering in the house gossiping and sipping their tea. There are very few women who actually see what they could be and those are the ones who don't accept being treated as inferior, but the other women see everything through everyone's else's view because this is a small town and they probably don't want to be excluded or whatever if they have different opinions.
DeleteI agree with Payal on the point that women accept this treatment because they do not know any better than to just accept it and live life as it is. They have never been out of the box that society has put around women so only some women have actually been outside of this so called box.
DeleteWomen have had a huge impact all throughout history. Men always felt they were superior and that women were just dumb. They felt women should just sit in the house and cook and clean. However, women have played a key role when needed. If we look back to the Revolutionary War, when Americans decided they wanted to boycott all the British goods, the American WOMEN came together in the Daughters of Liberty and they would sew clothes and stuff for everyone. They were also outstanding gossipers and this helped word spread around about boycotts, or about the tea party, and about revolution itself. Since men were so full of themselves, and believed women couldn't do anything, the Revolutionary War was the perfect time for women to prove themselves. On both sides there were women spies whose information determined the winning or losing of a battle. In World War 1 when all the men were away fighting, women took over factories and hospitals and they built ammunition, plowed fields, and paved streets. They supplied the armies with clothes, foods, and ammunition. Some were nurses in hospitals and some were in on the action, on the front lines treating soldiers right away. It's sad to think that the women had to do so much just to prove themselves, but they did it, and in 1920, the 19th Amendment,which was long overdue was finally ratified. Even now we have women who are giving their lives to defend our country.
ReplyDeleteIn the video there's a lot of sexism especially in the beginning because when Olive says she wants to run for president, Popeye responds saying that she's running for husbands. In Olive's world when she's president, she switches the role of the men and women. The women are the ones in charge in the offices and with the secretaries and the men are the ones at home cooking and cleaning.
Olive is very imaginative and when things are not in her favor she imagines things being better because she believes women deserve better. Instead of comparing, I'd like to contrast Olive's character with Aunt Alexandra. They both experience this sexism again women but Olive tries to make it better for herself, whereas Aunty A just goes with the flow. She thinks all women should act the way society wants them to- be clean and pretty and do your part in letting the race go on. It's pretty ironic though, because Aunty A thinks of herself as the MAN of the house, yet she believes women just do their part. She's basically taking form of the man that wants all girls to be girls. Maybe Scout realizes this or maybe she just doesn't want to be a girly-girl, because she's always coming up with logical responses to Aunty A's barked orders.
http://www.twainquotes.com/suffrage2.gif
This picture kind of relates to Olives switched up world. Instead of an Uncle Sam, it looks like an Aunt Sam, and instead of men petitioning for congress, it's a whole line of women petitioning for congress with a HUGE roll filled with signatures.
I had another question: Why did Atticus never re-marry after his wife died?
ReplyDeleteI think he felt it would be too hard on Jem, since he actually knew his mom. You know how in TV shows and books, how when a parents remarries, the kid automatically hates the new parent? I think that since Atticus is such a caring father, he wouldn''t want to put Jem through that.
DeleteI agree with anshika on the point that it would hurt the child that has already bonded with their parent that has died or left them. It would show Jem in this case, that Atticus didnt care about their well being and just cared about his own life. This also shows that in order to get rid of his pain, he is inflicting pain onto Jem by getting a new wife.
DeleteMy question is a women vs. women thing. If the women didn't like being looked down upon so much, was looking down on black women and men a way for them to comfort themselves?
ReplyDeleteMore than comforting themselves, I believe that looking down upon black women and men was a way to prevent themselves from being the least authoritative figurheads in society. They had not wanted to be seen as less than those who worked for them, so they therefore had looked down upon blacks.
DeleteActually, I disagree Karisma. I don't believe that white women intentionally looked down on black women for the sake of feeling better about their own roles in society. It was just ingrained in their culture to despise African-Americans. Even present day, women are still not equal to men (i.e. women statistically receive lower wages for the same job) but we look down on some types of men, gangsters, troublemakers, and other groups. It is just ingrained in our culture and we don't do it to make ourselves feel superior.
DeleteThe role of women was very limited back then to how it is now. Before, women would only clean, cook, or take care of the children. the role of women is still as important today as it was back then. Although today women stil clean, cook, and take care of the kids, now they have more freedom to explore other things rather than just cleaning. Olive shows this in the video by running for president, however she still demonstrates how established the role of women is because she cleans the streets and has a "secretary of love". I think Olive can be compared to Miss Maudie because both women are very strong and independent. Miss Maudie shows she has a different role as a woman because she doesnt have any children and doesnt follow the other womens gossip. She is very independent and still has a significant influence.
ReplyDeletehttp://designhistorylab.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/14.jpg
Question: Why does the role of women vary among different countries?
I think that the role of women vary among different countries based on the need. There may be a specific job needed to be done that women would have to do. They have to adapt to what will help them survive and prosper
DeleteI believe that the role of women in different countries was influenced by the culture and customs of the people of those nations. Some cultures actually have a lot of respect for females and mothers, while others seem to place no value at all on them. It all depends on the traditions of the people of that country and perhaps their customs from history influence the way women are treated in their societies now.
DeleteIt seems that so far today's discussion has revolved around the idea that "back then" things were unfair towards women and that the movie shows a stereotypical view of a women's life. The first point i say is false, the second is inherently true. Women are still confined into a rigid box to live in, they are only given the illusion of freedom, the same to racial minorities. We like to believe that things have become equal, but in all honesty the haven't. Just last week Rick Santourum was quoted saying that "A women has no place in the office of the president." A view we would try to claim is a barbarism from the time of the cartoon. This cartoon may seem like it was made a long time ago, but 50 years is the blink of an eye to most of the world except here where we scurry about our lives like frightened little ants. 50 years is not enough time to root out a societal prejudice that began 2000 years ago when Constantine of Rome introduced the idea of "original sin" to the Bible, then trying to discredit the pagan respect for a women's internal power. Since then, all cultures under the influence of Abrahamic philosophy have, and still do, disregard women, and though some attempt to be different, the prejudice still permeates the fabric of our society.
ReplyDeleteRIP Tupac Shakur: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfXwmDGJAB8
I think that is a very good point Kiyaan. We can still see that there is still a gap between the men and women, and there are many people who still think the same as 50 years ago. 50 years is a short time to get rid of a tradition of women inferiority. It is still seen today in one form or another, and it will be a long time before the idea of women inferiority becomes completely obsolete
DeleteThank you Andrew, it feels strange calling you that... Anyway, agreed we still have a long way to go and saying anything otherwise is only going to send us backward on this road
DeleteBut will women ever completely reach gender equality? No matter how many laws or movements that may happen, most men will still see themselves as superior. Male superiority is ingrained and innate for men, and for the most part, can be justified. Therefore, I do not see women inferiority becoming obsolete any time in the near future.
Deleteyou are correct in that, it took 2000 years to make the habit, it may very well take longer to break it
DeleteThrough the course of history, up until the 1920's or so, women were treated as less. In this video, this is portrayed well. When Olive suggests becoming president, Popeye laughs as if it is the most ludicrous thing he has ever heard. She also promises "frilly" things, nothing of substance. People think that women are only used for the "easy" work.
ReplyDeleteIn the book, Calpurnia is both a woman and a black, putting her at the extreme bottom of society. She cooks and cleans, showing that in this time, women were still considered the bottom. Though Scout is a little higher in society than Calpurnia since she is white, she is still very low, being a woman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V0cfqqRYSs&feature=related
This song is Keep Ya Head Up by Tupac. In the song, he wonders why everyone hates woman, since they do so much.
My Question is: Why do people believe the empty promises that Olive has made? They know it can't be true, so why do they choose to believe it now and pay the consequences later?
They don't know people can talk all they want but only their actions could support it. Just like for many leaders the people choose the one they believe is going to support their words with action and that's what many thought about Olive
DeleteYou stole my song link Anshika... and agreed with Antony, leaders make empty promises all the time, and people follow them, mostly because they give the leader more power than they actually have, like in the USA, the president really can only hinder things with a veto, but cannot really do anything to move along events without congress on his/her side. However people dont know that, and so they expect the president to do all they said they did when its not really possible to do so. They shouldnt make the promise in the first place yes, but that has just become an inherent part of campaigning.
DeleteAny woman that tries to break free of the box put around women is immediately faced with a choice, be content to live the life of a "lady" or to sell out and pretend to be a man. Scout is a young woman growing up and trying to learn her way around the world and she is confronted with this choice throughout the course of the novel. The choice between being Olive or being Mulan, and neither is appealing to her. She does the best she can throughout the story in a society bent of reigning her in
ReplyDeleteI think that this is a good point because although scout doesn't wan to be a lady and is tomboyish, she didn't have the opportunity to take on a man's role and could only pretend. She wants to be who she wants, but society disapproves. She really is just trying to work her way through the world.
DeleteI agree with both of you. I think that Scout is a person who is still young and still learning the ways of the world. She is a person who doesn't want to do what other people tell her to do. Instead, Scout is someone who wants to be unique and have her own way of life.
DeleteI disagree with all three of you..in a sense.
DeleteFirstly, women do NOT need to necessarily "pretend to be men" to break free from the constraints set by the society of the time period. Sure women used the "pretending to be a man" card to be able to wear pants; sure women "pretended to be men" so they could fight in wars. This wasn't the CHOICE. This was the package that came with the choice of fighting for freedom. Many women openly declared the need for change even if it was outrageous at the time.
Secondly, I do not entirely agree with the "Scout was trying to be tomboyish" view. I believe she doesn't do it on purpose, it is merely her surroundings: her brother, her father, her neighbors, her community that influenced her to be who she. Had she not been born in a time of prejudice and discrimination, she would be different. Every single event and person in her life affected her to become who she is. IN FACT (I just realized this) it is her community's fault for making her "tomboy-ish".
Michelle, you are correct that it is not as blatant as in say Mulan where they are literally pretending to be men, but let's face it, all positions of power are in testosterone flooded fields, and so a women who wants to join that field to gain power often has to conform to that high aggression, high testosterone mentality. Everything in the modern age is a continuation of past traditions on a subtle and covert front, no longer are women walking around claiming to be men to do what only men are "supposed" to do, but a feminine figure that tries to play in business or politics will be shot down. Its not right, but to often it ends up being the truth.
DeleteIn the clip you could see that popeye ridiculed olive for trying to run for president. You could see the sexism of the time. A woman should be at home in the kitchen or whatnot. But olive quickly rebutted by telling popeye what she would do when she became president. She would start to spew out these feminine ideals that were geared towards women and children. Such as the longer honeymoons and 1 cent ice cream cones. ALthough these were her ideals she was acting naive towards the whole situation. She thought that if a woman was president they could do everything better that the bitter old men. She thought that she could make children happy by selling them 1 cent all day ice cream cones. although it sounds good it isn't for the economy. They would probably lose a lot more money trying to sell those. I also noticed her own sexism towards men. She wanted to be put superior to men rather than equal. She wanted the 98% tax on single men to force then to find a woman in hopes that she would show them that life is better with a woman. by doing that she took away a man's liberty to look for a wife the he actually liked. She also would propose the Women wear the pants in the family act to basically switch the role of men and women. Its also seen in the Bill she would propose to give women male secretaries. I do think that the women's role in society back then limited what they could do and treated them as inferior. it didn't give them the liberty to find jobs they wanted. They merely had to take care of children and stay in the kitchen, but equality isn't reached by taking away the other party's liberties, but by agreeing to have the same liberties as the other. (Sorry about the off-topic ramble)
ReplyDeleteI think that Cal did represent the role of a woman back then. She was a caretaker of the Finch family. She would make their meals and scold Jem and Scout when they were doing something wrong. She was almost raising the kids. Also we see Cal a lot in the kitchen where most women back then were. If you think about it, she chose the perfect job for a women back then. A caretaker. She almost didn't have the liberty to take on an office job or such because they were for men and not women. Almost the same as the beginning of the clip where we saw popeye laugh at olive for wanting to run for president. A women holding an office job was ridiculous, but to go for president was even more. It was almost impossible to get one for a woman. I think that Cal really represents this situation well
.http://www.google.com/imgres?q=role+of+1950%27s+women&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1570&bih=873&tbm=isch&tbnid=ETBEhQrSTrMQ1M:&imgrefurl=http://1950sconformity.blogspot.com/2011/05/women.html&docid=EUTLFe2Y3hTo3M&imgurl=http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6sVnjxnoXIg/TchC0UXZGoI/AAAAAAAAAAM/82b51V7CdU8/s1600/gender%252Bfeminine%252B1.jpg&w=281&h=290&ei=LNAgT6nFF4XjiAKD3ejKBw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=641&vpy=534&dur=2025&hovh=228&hovw=221&tx=193&ty=176&sig=113896129902599696219&page=1&tbnh=160&tbnw=190&start=0&ndsp=33&ved=1t:429,r:28,s:0
This picture shows you that back then women pretty much "catered" to a man
Going back to my little ramble about Olive. I do think she was naive, but this is a case by case situation. This situation comes up with men too. Naivety isn't something that only one side has. It is shared by both in case by case situations.
DeleteGreat points, hear hear. Your ramble isn't off topic however, to the contrary, it is absolutely correct that simply reversing the polarity of the inequality will not help things, in fact reversing the polarity of anything almost never really helps, and society would be destroyed in the ensuing chaos should that sort of drastic act be attempted. Your argument does a great job of balancing the truth of discrimination, while also trying to caution that though women have a right to be angry, blind actions to get "revenge" like Olives will only worsen the situation. Genius work.
DeleteI agree with you Andrew on the point that Calpurnia was the mother of the family of three. She took on all the responsibility that a mother should take therefore implying herself the second half of the family. Olive Oyl isn't named what she is for nothing either. Olive oil implies the cooking and the kitchen. But it also implies the stuff makes the texture of the food taste just right implying women's role in the family. The men provide the food and the women make it a masterpiece.
DeleteSo in this case, women being "catered" to men would be the best word choice.
Although we can't change the past and women's roles back then would stay in the past. What would happen if women were given equality earlier and how would it look like in modern society? Also, how would modern society look if there was no gender gap in the first place?
ReplyDeleteIf women were given equality earlier and if there were no gender gap at all, I think that the modern society today would have progressed greatly in equality. Even today, we are slowly balancing the rights and freedoms between men and women. If women were given equality earlier, it would speed up the process. If there were no gender gap, then we would have all been equal to begin with.
DeleteI think that if women had been given equality earlier, they would have been present in the professional world much earlier. Women would have had reached the positions of men, or even higher by now. If there had been no gender gap in the first place, modern society would be much more equal. There would be an equal number of female and male leaders, authoritative powers, and care takers throughout our modern society.
DeleteWomen's roles in society are many without a doubt. Without them, society would definitely fall apart. An example of this would be the movie "Mars Needs Moms". To compare a different characteristic very typical in the popular culture today, I will use Miss Maudie as an example. Miss Maudie shows the side of women without the tyranny of men being a widow. She keeps with the gossip around the town and therefore becomes a very trusted source of information for anyone trying to find something out. She also becomes a sort of motherly figure to anyone who she sees fit to be towards. She represents women who are innately good even when men aren't around. This image maybe an example what her role is taken as to most people in Maycomb County.
ReplyDeletehttp://bluebook.state.or.us/images/facts/scenic/suffrage/steamrollerloc.jpg
My question to you is this: Why wouldn't women be put down in society when they are compared with children? Ex:Save the women and children first.
During the mid 1900s, women had been typically seen as the inferior to men in the professional working world. But, the limited power of women had not only been existant during this time period. Throughout history, the power of women had pretty much been restricted only to inside the household and towards children. Women are typically percieved as the loving, emotional, and caring authorities of society, and due to these factors many people think that these traits will "distract" them from a professional working position. However, I disagree with these opinion of these individuals. I believe that women can carry out any task that any man could, along with also carrying out their other responsibilities of being care-takers, loving mothers, and house keepers. The quote "Behind every great man, there is a woman" means exactly what it states. In society, men have been the presents, speakers, and main workers, but behind every successful man, there may be a great woman guiding him through all obstacles in life.
ReplyDeleteIn this video, I think that Olive is trying to prove that she can carry out more than one role in society. She is stating that she could run for president and hold an authoritative power while also being the loving and caring "girly girl" that she is. She may also be saying that maybe out world needs a little more love and a little less war. That maybe if we all understood one another, our chances of gaining peace would be much higher. In some cases, she may be too focused on the "love" matter of everything and how it could be applied to every single issue/problem that occurs, but maybe this is because she has never been given the chance to explore this professional world. Maybe she just needs a chance to understand exactly what this "hidden" professional world is all about.
Just the same, in the novel I believe that Scout has the potential to live up to the expectations of any other man in the society she lives in. Being raised by a single father and having an older brother, she has been exposed to the minds and ways of thinking of men/boys and therefore has a "secret weapon" if she ever did want to enter the professional world. She may not ever want to become a mother and have children due to the fact that her mother died at an age of which Scout can barely even remember her. Scout had never truly experienced the role of a mother being played out, so therefore she has absolutely no idea of what to expect.
Just like Olive, I believe that Scout does have the yearning to explore and take a stand in male dominant fields. She has the potential and background necessary to do so, and now the only thing holding her back would be the rest of society telling her otherwise.
This political cartoon shows how the women wear the pants in the family as they do all of the household works as well. http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/files/images/womens-suffrage-cartoon.jpg
My question is: Why do you think that women did not take a stand for power, authoritative powers, and other professional positions in society earlier in history? Was it the men in society holding them back or did women feel that they could not accomplish these jobs themselves?
Actually, in some early civilizations such as Egypt, women actually were able to rule and had equal rights as men had. However, in most other civilizations, men were "superior". I think women did not take a stand for power for the simple fact that they were not able to. A female had no voice and if she tried to speak out she was punished by the men who are unfortunately physically stronger. It was not until women saw that there was strength in numbers and banned together that they began to be seen as equals.
DeleteEven though women weren't regarded or recognized as highly as today, they have played a significant role in developing the modern era we live in today. In the background, women have always supported the family and raised the children who would grow up to become influential figures in society. Such an example is like Cal. Cal is the caretaker of the Finch's home and does many of the things that a regular housewife would do. Without her, the family would not have food on the table or a suitable house to live in. Cal and her role as the caretaker are a very important factor in Jem's and Scout's life.
ReplyDeletehttp://english.bayynat.org.lb/womenfamily/woman1.htm
Now here's a question; How do you think Jem, Scout and Atticus' lives would be effected if Calpurnia weren't there for them?
Women really have played a significant role. Without them, the children wouldn't have been raised properly. There would have been no cooked dinner, and there would be a messy house. Women played a small yet major role.
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DeleteMany people of both the past and the present believe that women have always been restricted and limited to the role of wife and mother. The jobs of cleaning, cooking, and caring for children have always been reserved and expected from women. However, I would like to introduce a different perspective: this role of women is natural, evident in nature itself. It is the female birds that lay the eggs and feed the baby chicks. It is the mothers and females that the lion cubs remain with until full maturity. The unfairness really comes from men oppressing women and their freedom of self-thinking and exploration and discovery. Though understandble but still unjustified, men seemed to think that with women's long, accepted history of passivity and house chores, this would never change and so dismissed any idea of them leaving the "nest" at home. On the other hand, I would also like to point out that it is the female penguins that leave the nest and egg behind to search for food while the mates are left to care for the egg. It the male red foxes that teach its cubs survival skills. This proves that women are not only meant to be wives and mothers, but also the backbone of our country. They have and always will aspire, struggle, and fight along side all men. In turn, women have also significantly proved their worth and ability for the past centuries: women are in the army, women are in Congress, women are running for president.
ReplyDeleteI believe Olive, if she really worked hard and truly aimed to become president, could definitely do so. However, she does not display the effort or understanding of what the leader of a country means and represents. She is in fact dictatorial in "comically" hitting her husband when he spoke his opinion of Olive running for president. Her propositions benefit the country, in my opinion, not at all. She in fact takes the peoples, especially men's, freedom away in basically forcing marriage, the complete opposite of the perspective that men oppress women. She presents no real benefit to the country and instead suggests a life of indulgence and luxury and is thus incapable of becoming president.
DeleteOn the other hand, Miss Maudie, from the novel "To Kill a Mockingbird", has the proper set of values and mannerism to possibly be an important figure in her town. She is fair and intends no real harm while also kindly guiding the growing child, Scout, to a similar propriety. She does not discriminate against those with another religion and belief. She does not spread unnecessary gossip like Miss Stephanie does. Lastly, she does not impose a sudden, impossible change upon the Finch household of Maycomb County as Aunt Alexandra does.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/EmperorPenguinColonyClose.jpg
DeleteThis shows that the stereotypical role of females is also taken on by males and so the role of a man can similarly be taken on by a woman!!
http://gloriasong.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/strongwoman.jpg
My questionn:
ReplyDeleteDo YOU believe women are as good as men? Do YOU believe a woman can accomplish ANYTHING a man can?
Well genetically men are better equipped then women. There is a point 5th/6th grade were women exceed men however men catch up after this time with muscle development and growing. But putting that aside women can do just about anything a man can if they put there mind to it. They can't fall into that belief that they are less then men.
DeleteAnswer: Plain and simple... OF COURSE! We can do anything they can do but in heels aaaand multitask. I really think the only advantage men have is their physical strength. :P
DeleteI admit that the average man is built to be physically stronger than the average woman but my point was that a woman with ambition could BECOME stronger than the average man both physically and mentally...and politically.
DeleteWomen can be as strong as men physically and mentally it doesn't matter what gender you are you can accomplish anything, but only if you put your mind and effort into it.
DeleteWomen can do anything a man can. But realistically, men do grow bigger and taller than most women, so that is to their advantage, but based on intelligence, there are many women out there like Hilary Clinton to prove that women can be just as powerful as men.
DeleteI think women are as good as men. Although they can't do EVERYTHING a man does, there are some things that they can do better than men. They things that men do better are mostly physical, because men can normally grow bigger and stronger than women. Women are equal to men, but each can accomplish different tasks.
DeleteWomen throughout history, have always been looked at as inferior. This has changed recently, however throughout history examples of women stepping up to the challenge and doing the unexpected constantly appear. For example in war women would pretend to be male. In Olive running for president we see a women doing the unexpected to fix her nation. I believe that Scout's reluctance to become more women like is in part due to her unwillingness to give into that women are less then men to mentality. She wants to make a difference just like olive. http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&sa=X&biw=1366&bih=667&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=LuW10iLUdp_OfM:&imgrefurl=http://filmfather.blogspot.com/2009/02/mulan-1998.html&docid=J9_J9rrJGbNMUM&imgurl=http://1.bp.blogspot.com/__oqV_kUSrws/SZXr_evcRSI/AAAAAAAAAdE/qzzQQnbXP_8/s320/mulan3.jpg&w=273&h=230&ei=l-IgT_CDCeeLiAKHzungBw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=582&vpy=141&dur=3860&hovh=184&hovw=218&tx=93&ty=62&sig=110584891265635206328&page=1&tbnh=159&tbnw=189&start=0&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0
ReplyDeleteThe "perfect" woman has grown and evolved through the generations. To Kill A Mockingbird occurs in the early 20th century, and Miss Maudie is the symbol of that generation's view on what a woman should be like. Softspoken, modest, honest, hardworking,feminine, and caring are traits that Miss Maudie projects as a woman who knows her place. This is how all females were expected act during this time period.
ReplyDeleteIn our generation, the views on how women are supposed to act as portrayed by the media have some similarities and differences to that of TKAM's generation. In our pop culture, women are protrayed as girly, independent, flirtatious, curvy, skinny, and confident with average intelligence. They are supposed to enjoy things such as shopping and "face-booking".
Hey girls, apparantly we're supposed to look like this...
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb149/phenomenaonbreak/Fap/megan%20fox/megan_fox_04a.jpg
Question: What do you think the "perfect" woman will be like in the eyes of people 50 or so years from now?
HAHAHAHAHAHA
DeleteHonestly, for me, and I hope many others, I dont like a pretty face unless it comes with a good personality and a good heart. What was that quote..Be good inside AND out. What's a face? Merely a part of us, easily changed with today's modern technology, for better or for worse.
I believe there is no way of knowing what the new fad is going to be. Therefore, it is impossible to predict the status women will have in 50 years. Despite this, I am curious myself about how women will be treated and expected to behave half a century from now.
DeleteI believe you are right that the way women have become are totally different than what was expected back then. Women submitted to their husbands because they were the bosses, and women are expected to be quiet and loyal. Now, it's definitely not like that.
DeleteOur view of the “perfect woman” will constantly develop and grow. 50 years ago, the “perfect woman” was a soft-spoken, demure lady who worked around the house and her life’s mission was having kids. Now, the “perfect woman” is probably considered to be a strong, open-minded, ambitious girl who sets out to follow her dreams. In another 50 years? The “perfect woman” will probably be a girl who accomplishes her goals and makes a name for herself in the world.
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ReplyDeleteAs seen in the Pop Eye Animation, women had the main goal of marrying a good, handsome man that could support the family. Moreover, it was the women's job to take care of the children which is seen in To Kill a Mockingbird when Atticus invited Alexandra to stay since he feared his children would not be able to grow up properly without female guidance. Therefore, indirectly,women had the control over the next generation. However, they did not utilize this to their favor and try to change women's status by raising their children into thinking women and men were equal. Why?
ReplyDeleteThis is a political cartoon that shows the role of women in society present-day: http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1366&bih=641&tbm=isch&tbnid=s8u30M0l0mEaXM:&imgrefurl=http://www.imow.org/wpp/stories/viewStory%3Fstoryid%3D1866&docid=L4nejnKBWm_Y6M&imgurl=
Though it is true that women held that power to control the next generation, a valid point, the question becomes, would the child retain the knowledge given to them by the mother? As you yourself said in class in The Help, this was not the case, the child did not retain the knowledge given to them and simply grew up to become the next jailer
DeleteI believe the role of women has changed a lot, but at the same time, much hasn't changed. The role of women has changed in that women can now have high positions or ranks, whereas back then, a woman couldn't even get a job. But women have stayed the same because some still stay at home, cook, and take care of the children.
ReplyDeleteBut even today, women are still looked as inferior. Men are "stronger," and more looked up to, while women are still required to do the tedious jobs of cleaning the house, washing dishes, while men are looked up to and do important jobs like running the country, having big, company jobs, etc. http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&biw=1680&bih=935&gbv=2&tbm=isch&tbnid=izWwattc4U8ATM:&imgrefurl=http://www.superstock.com/stock-photos-images/4048-6958&docid=4PaxDrWkuf9coM&imgurl=http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/4048/PreviewComp/SuperStock_4048-6958.jpg&w=313&h=350&ei=ofUgT7qSF6GmiQLE3JH7CQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=171&vpy=125&dur=1139&hovh=237&hovw=212&tx=140&ty=120&sig=100355616486675369661&page=1&tbnh=128&tbnw=113&start=0&ndsp=45&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0 this is an ironic photo where the role of women and men have been switched.
In the book Scout is seen as Tom boy because of her behavior in acting like a boy. However when Aunt Alexandra comes to take care of her and Jem she forces Scout to behave like a woman and dress like one too. This crucially affects Scout because her inner emotion is to be like a boy and have no worries about silly things like proper clothes. When aunt Alexandra tries to change her she is trying to change Scouts ability to be her own and do things men do because she isn't afraid. Similarly Olive Oyl is almost the same in a way because Olive wants to become president and only men have been elected. The main difference between Olive and scout is that Olive acts feminine, but doesn't act roughly like scout.http://blaine.org/jules/graceforpresident1.jpg
ReplyDeleteI agree, olive oyl wants to be president when only men have been. she claims that she would change how the world looked like and who should be wearing the pants in the family. the men usually provide for the house hold but olive oyl tries to show what sexist influences go on today
DeleteI think that the women in the past and the present are considered inferior to the men, but it definetly has changed through time. Women back then were not even close to the men, however, in the present their role has increased because they have another option other than to stay at home and do the chores and cooking.
ReplyDeleteOlive in popeye, is similar to Calpurnia in a way that they are both discriminated against, because they were women. Olive said that if she was president, she would increase taxes on single men to 98% and to married men they are tax free. so she is trying to say that men would be better off with a wife instead of staying alone.
http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1600&bih=775&tbm=isch&tbnid=60yof9WBen7tzM:&imgrefurl=http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-10848520/stock-photo-discriminative-road-style-sign-depicting-sexism-and-discrimination.html&docid=fUe_BvEuv3ONHM&imgurl=http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/93267/93267,1206706068,63/stock-photo-discriminative-road-style-sign-depicting-sexism-and-discrimination-10848520.jpg&w=348&h=470&ei=_fggT5W-EcrWiAKj1a38Bw&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=490&sig=109156014197273091108&page=2&tbnh=140&tbnw=104&start=36&ndsp=42&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:36&tx=69&ty=67
this is a picture of a reversal. instead of men allowed in one area, its only women that are allowed.
question: Why were the women considered inferior back then, why not the men? If the women could do the same things the men could do, would they still be discriminated?
Olive is much like Calpurnia in a way that they both fight for what they want. Olive wants to run for president and help the world by cleaning up the cities or having women have more rights. While, Calpurnia stands up for her race in the case of Tom Robinson.
DeleteWomen were considered inferior back then because men thought that they were unable to accomplish tasks. Men thought low of them because in most households, the man was the one who did all of the work while the woman took care of this children. Later on, women started to take action and do jobs that men did, so people started to see them as equal.
DeleteStill seen today, men are superior to women. Most of the time you think of a mother that stays home and takes care of the children and cooks and cleans, while the husband is out working and supporting the family. That's how it was before when women didn't have the rights to get a job, vote, etc. And today, women are still seen as inferior, but has gained more rights. For example: Hilary Clinton ran for president in 2008 against Barack Obama. Although she did not win, this shows that, over the years, women have grown stronger.
ReplyDeleteIn the video, Olive wants to run for president. She says that as president, she would do many things like get a man for every girl or have silk worms make stockings for the ladies. Olive also says she wants the women to "wear the pants" instead of the men, which is giving women more rights. Olive is a strong woman in the video that wants to fight for women's right by running for president, which women were not allowed to do back then.
This is like Scout in To Kill A Mockingbird because Scout doesn't want to be like what Aunt Alexandra is making her become like, more lady-like. Scout like to be like Atticus and Jem, like a man, because she feels like they have less restrictions and more rights than women.
http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbnid=Xbri9kEEgeB-qM:&imgrefurl=http://www.dosomething.org/tipsandtools/terms-you-should-know-about-womens-rights&docid=kH2iKyb9FOgBQM&imgurl=http://www.dosomething.org/files/pictures/feminism_202b.jpg&w=267&h=350&ei=y_4gT4joDcWQiAKxiM2ECA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=324&vpy=74&dur=4834&hovh=257&hovw=196&tx=102&ty=195&sig=117587756686985897728&page=1&tbnh=106&tbnw=81&start=0&ndsp=14&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0&biw=1047&bih=457
this picture shows a woman acting strong and tough when people usually think that women can't do much hard labor.
Women have almost always been regarded as inferior, both in the past and in modern times. Although discrimination and racism of all kinds are frowned upon by today’s society, it doesn’t change the fact that gender discrimination still occurs around the world. Prejudices and judgments have shaped our society into what it is today, and these influences can clearly be seen in “Olive Oyl for President.” In the cartoon Olive is portrayed as overly feminine, and she is completely dependent on men. She is incapable of focusing on important issues and is exaggeratedly naïve. In To Kill a Mockingbird, Scout seems to be almost the opposite of Olive. She is a strong-willed girl who is stubborn and courageous. Unlike Olive, Scout does not want to fit the mold of the “ideal woman” and is not reliant on men to survive. Question: What was the effect of cartoons such as these on the American public?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.google.com/imgres?q=women+discrimination&hl=en&sa=X&rlz=1R2ADFA_enUS366&biw=1920&bih=899&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnsb&tbnid=dJjnEgUZIsC1UM:&imgrefurl=http://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/g/gender_discrimination.asp&docid=bji4hzxc9Bof-M&imgurl=http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/jwe0257l.jpg&w=400&h=313&ei=3f0gT8ObOaKQiQLiqpjLBw&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=265&sig=114959357483746240972&page=1&tbnh=112&tbnw=143&start=0&ndsp=59&ved=1t:429,r:12,s:0&tx=104&ty=55
This cartoon shows a woman at a job interview, and emphasizes the gender discrimination involved in certain jobs. I believe that everyone should be given an equal chance for jobs regardless of gender or race; prejudices such as the one shown here should be discouraged as much as possible.
This is my question for you: Women were the ones to care for the children when they're growing up. Why were women still seen as inferior to men when they were the ones who raised the men to who they grew up to?
ReplyDeleteI think the reason is that the men wanted to relegate the "unimportant" or lesser jobs to the women, while they did the "real" work of making money, when in reality, they were both equally important jobs.
DeleteI agree with Albert. Men only saw women as people who raised children and stayed in their homes. Men think they do the 'real' jobs, like holding office or working in shops and factories. They didn't know that raising children to be adults would be so difficult. To men, raising children wasn't a job, which is why they had the women do that. They thought that women were incapable and unskilled to do anything else.
DeleteEven today women are sometimes seen lower to men in society. There are many forms of discrimination going on right now but sexism is a reoccurring problem that we still face today. Not being sexist or anything, but even statistics show that women still get paid less than men. this comes from all over the world, many different cultures view women as stay at home maids who clean the house and cook food for the men. In olive oyl for president many examples of the gender discrimination that we se today are portrayed in the clip. for example the women wear the pants in the family bill/law that olive tried to pass was to represent that women arent usually making the money in the household and its usually the men who put the food on the table.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1600&bih=785&tbm=isch&tbnid=FN7ZBCpi_30ZxM:&imgrefurl=http://maketheworldyourstage.com/improving-self-confidence-working-mommy/&docid=puqbtycpSVdSIM&imgurl=http://maketheworldyourstage.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Stay-home-mommy.jpg&w=311&h=333&ei=BAQhT7SQKOmSiAKq66DnBw&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=227&sig=102603437943083046276&page=1&tbnh=124&tbnw=116&start=0&ndsp=36&ved=1t:429,r:28,s:0&tx=56&ty=35
In the novel To kill a mocking bird calpurnia is portrayed as the motherly figure of Jem and Scout. She cooks, cleans the house and raises the two children as if they were her own. she scolds scout for being impolite to the guest to teach her life lessons and good values.
http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&biw=1600&bih=785&tbm=isch&tbnid=SBBH8ozdSgnINM:&imgrefurl=http://www.toonpool.com/cartoons/working%2520women_55261&docid=_TCh2sTAtgEvKM&imgurl=http://www.toonpool.com/user/4799/files/working_women_552615.jpg&w=500&h=323&ei=agUhT7PcBuHKiQLr15nzBw&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=532&sig=102603437943083046276&page=1&tbnh=110&tbnw=170&start=0&ndsp=34&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:0&tx=134&ty=66
this image represents the women back then who raised the children as their own but instead
were treated differently as they had cared for and nourished the children.
In this video, women are represented by Olive Oyl, and her actions make it seem that women are narcissists who only care about sensual pleasures. For example, she wanted ice cream for a penny and clean floors everywhere. Now that I think of it, she is similar to Mildred in F 451. Mildred cared only about the minor, unimportant things in life, and this draws a parallel in that Olive will only do useless, unrealistic things once she becomes president. In the video, Olive never mentions economical issues, which represents that in the real world, women are only "in charge" or capable of doing insignificant things, while the men do the real work. This is seen in TKAM as Calpurnia has a somewhat important, but not pivotal role in the story.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/for/lowres/forn600l.jpg
cartoon of male dominance.
My question: How does society's view of women contrast with the maxim's view (The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world) on women?
The society of this time period has created the stereotype that all women will ever amount to is being able to put a steamy hot meal on the dinner table. However, "the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world" demonstrates the idea that yes, although women are at home conducting less strenuous work compared to their husbands, they still have an impact on the future livelihood of the world.
DeleteI think that women are slowly starting to take on higher roles and more responsibility. At first, women had almost no rights, but throughout history, they slowly became more involved with the world. In the cartoon, Olive wanted to do what no woman has ever done, become president. In the past, presidents have only been men, but Olive believes that she can make big changes if she becomes the president. In TKAM, Scout tries to take on the role of a man. She is unlike other girls who grow up to become ladies. Scout dresses and acts differently. She is more like a man than other women in this novel.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.inc.com/uploaded_files/image/women-in-technology-face-uphill-battle-pop_8545.jpg
This picture shows a very man-like women who is encouraging other women to take action and responsibilities in the world.
How are women changing the world, and how are they held back from the world?
The role of women in the 1800s and early 1900s were nothing compared to today. Back then, women weren't allowed to do almost anything, except tend to their children and homes. Even children wandered about freely in their towns, while the women stayed in the homes. Women were never really given any real jobs, other than cooking, cleaning, and raising children. When slavery was around, the servants cooked and cleaned, and sometimes took care of the children. So, the women had even less to do, and started gossiping with each other. In To Kill a Mockingbird, Scout wanted to be more than just a person taking care of her house and children, which is why she denied Aunt Alexandrea. As a woman, Socut wouldn't be able to run around, and do things that Jem would do. Scout mostly played with Jem, and so she looked up to and respected him. She probably wanted to be more like him, so she followed him around and did the same things he did. Olive Oyl wants to run for president because she sees the ridulous, but effective, ways of the running candidates. She gets upset when Popeye laughs at her idea of running for president. This shows how men thought of women, at that time. They only thought of women as the housefolk.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.designhistory.org/images_posters/Rosie-LARGE.jpg
This image shows a woman flexing and saying, "We can do it!" Women want to show their strength in things other than housework. But, its hard for them to do that, if the men don't give them a chance.
My question is, why do some men (even now) view women as weaker than them, because there are also many things that women can do that men can't?
Olive’s campaign values can be closely compared to Aunt Alexandra’s presence in To Kill a Mockingbird. Important principles for Olive were cleanliness of the country, dropping prices for married families and children, and anything related to feminine moral. These ideas were oh so dear to Olive; however, you cannot build a thriving country with this ideology as the frame work. These are miniscule problems compared to the major issues of the world. This can be related to Aunt Alexandra’s way of thinking. The perfect hour glass figure and dressing/acting like a moral lady should were the only ethics Alexandra held. This is completely reflective of society’s women at the time. They were taught to think and act this way.
ReplyDeleteThis next political cartoon demonstrates how men are the root of women of these times.
http://njdh.scc-net.rutgers.edu/enj/lessons/womens_suffrage/img/votes_for_women.jpg
Question: Are today’s women still considered inferior the modern male?
Women in our society is very different to the women in TKAM. Women in TKAM didn't any of the housework, since they had slaves. So, they would just sit and gossip about what is going around in town. This made them lower than the males. Males were able to do so much more than women. Males at that time, had many options to explore and try new stuff. Now, men and women are able to do the same things. Men don't have that much more rights than women.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&biw=1280&bih=699&tbm=isch&tbnid=YqUMzq1He8S56M:&imgrefurl=http://ei-awn.org/&docid=lMy77mTY0saYPM&imgurl=http://ei-awn.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/male-female-equality.jpg&w=400&h=300&ei=VZRNT-v6KOSfmQW4uOj7Dw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=340&vpy=162&dur=1974&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=88&ty=76&sig=101781190994432040183&page=1&tbnh=159&tbnw=225&start=0&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0
this picture shows how men and women now are equal and that there is no big difference between men and women.
question: do you think Scout will have the same personality if her mother was there for her as a motherly figure and women role model?